Thats not an explanation to give a career a 100% refund condition. Ults shouldnt be spammable imo. And you know how well some players have become at pierce. If they want to balance boss killing potential, then they should treat all fair (Pierce, MWP RV, Trollpedo etc). Or let the BH have his fun without the stagger. Just dont kill our precious last BH Mains. They dont come often.
is the patch already out?
Want start testing 
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Sorry but do you play Piercing Shot yourself? Do you know how hard it is to one cycle Chaos Spawn? Do you know how ping reliant it is because of how it has zero stagger? I say this as a person that plays both Piercing Stalker and BH extensively, they both play very different and one of them is very forgiving for landing headshots and keeping the streak going. I’ll let you figure out which one is which.
This is a pretty funny thing to say as a BH main to another BH main. The irony is palpable.
Nobody is saying that MWP RV shouldn’t get nerfed/worked on, pretty much everybody advocates for it. Piercing Shot being considered as ‘problematic’ is quite the hot take.
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@Aqshy Is there a chance that you will take a look at Saltzpyres Repeater Pistol so it has better ammo management especially making some gameplay more reliable working when he shoots all ammo at once? That would greatly improve him. He will need that buff after the “Fix” of his double shot ult.
But overall the balance changes sound nice on paper so far.
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Ehm, im not a BH main, i cant even play him properly as i cant hit heads
But i do respect BH Mains and Piercers and hold them in high regard. Thats why I want BH to stay the way he was (but buffed THP). Nerfing the fun of hard-to learn careers is a no go for me in gamedesign. I am against nerfs as FS guys tend to overdo they “balance” nerfs. I already lost quite a few friends to their “balance” ideas over the years. All i wanted to point out is, that, if they really intend to kill the fun for BH mains, then be fair or dont touch him at all.
Refering BH ultimate: Lets wait maybe with 60+10% (trinket property) cdr you will still have a good time with a purple in your pocket. But yeah it sounds rough at the first glance. But perma stagger monsters and deleting them with one purple was also a bit lame (with little effort to invest). I think with this balance patch you have to care now more carefully about the monster`s animations and when you got used to it you still can solo them with a purple. The ult still staggers the monster and forces the monster to do the same animation again and again. Should be easy to learn.
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just crossposting for visibility, Good morning, I think lowering boss damage on official realm is a very good idea overall, I have a couple things id like to say. I’ll try to keep it short, I don’t play bh so you should ask those players, but my assumption is they would have good ideas to rework the class if you don’t want it to be a doubleshotted bot. As everyone knows trollhammer and masterwork pistol on RV are quite overpowered, but specifically they’re both excellent monster killers and I’m sure you know they need to be addressed.
I know this next bit has nothing to with class balance, but a girl can dream. The discussion of monster damage and twitch mode are intertwined; and even though i have a tiny bit of hope for a small twitch mode update, I don’t know if fatshark has any interest wasting the dev hours on it. If a team wants to play twitch mode on official realm, but nobody picks a build that has great monster damage, 1 in every 3 votes will end up with someone having to fight a monster for a minute, or cliff it. The biggest complaint among anyone who still plays twitch mode is the needing to have a monster damage build, or being forced to play 199% or lower. So in my opinion there’s a few solutions, and i’m not sure which is the best; ideally give players an option to change % spawn of patrol, special, and monster votes individually. I’m not sure but i think an easy solution would be to give players some way to increase % of every vote but keep monster spawns at 1, or some way to weight monster votes in a way they are much less common. Any small change to twitch mode would go a very long way.
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Please don’t put this in. Just don’t.
Bomb spam is atrocious enough on Ranger Veteran. It takes 0 skill and has 0 risk, yet an insane reward.
It has no place in a skill based game.
Masterwork pistol 100% needs multiple nerfs, a boss damage nerf being one of them.
The same applies to trollhammer torpedo, which not only needs a boss damage nerf but also a nerf to its aoe damage so it can no longer delete patrols or any sort of difficulty spike.
Please do not take too much inspiration from some of the balance mods as they overbuff stuff like the 1h sword to the point where left click spamming every threat becomes the optimal combo.
In general, a more conservative and careful approach to 1h weapon buffs would be advised.
Otherwise it will powercreep the game hard if 1h weapons get access to mobility, finesse, crit, stamina, etc. all with a very easy to use moveset.
Also, no changes to low tier weapons like Moonfire bow, swiftbow, conflag, pickaxe, drakefire pistols, Shade volley crossbow, etc. is a bit disappointing.
I just wish we got these balance changes on a beta branch with more community feedback.
It would be unfortunate to see further imbalance come from a well intentioned balance update.
I’m glad we’re still getting updates at all though.
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wouldnt mind the bomb every 80 seconds, the bigger problem is that leading shots was used by some players to deal with armoured specials together with the ultimate.
Huh?
I understand the Javelin nerf, heck I even expected a S&D nerf, but DD?
Killing monsters is the whole point of the weapon…
Only reason I use them sometimes is because they are cool, that’s it.
Also, how did Ranger Vet dodge this section? Most braindead boss killer with Masterwork Pistol.
It was a must pick before so this is great news.
You may disagree with being on high overcharge etc. but that doesn’t change the fact that you either pick that talent or you don’t play pyromancer.
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Well, that is the same case for quite a bit things in the game currently. Though I agree:
And it is not on Ranger Veteran alone. Because with Trollhammer Torpedo and a base ammo of seven, you have about 20 additional bombs per map (under the easy assumption of finding at least two ammo restocks). And worse, Trollhammer Torpedo has no wind-up animation like bombs, so it will be shot directly. Ever seen a Trollhammer Torpedo on Legend and Cataclysm not triggering a patrol? I haven’t.
But yea, I would love to see a change to RV bomb talent. It is stupid that it can be stacked. It should basically make Bardin cause an explosion like the Unchained base career skill. Would also nerf the Morgrim spam.
I love Conflagration Staff exactly the way it is. Please no changes to that one as it is very balanced for Cataclysm difficulty. Drakefire Pistols the same, word also very well on Cataclysm. As for Moonfire Bow I have seen an uptick in usage recently (releated to the graphical changes?). Seems people understand now better how to use it.
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Pretty much everything they took from the balance mods is a nerf lol.
I did play Pyromancer. I just used Fleetflame. And surprise, it was actually quite versatile and useful. You don’t need Volan’s Doctrine for Pyromancer to be strong and work well. It makes her just a more boring no risk, high reward career like Zealot.
It is a viable build and on cata you will run out of ammo because with the bomb build you will take potion/bomb drop. So not as much Masterwork Pistol spam than without a bomb build. Most players go for ale or ammo drop because then they only have to spam with their pistols. So please let the bomb build be alive.
i missed the part where pressure stacks decay one by one and you get more maximum steam
thats the only thing he needed, you know like in modded realm
you nerfed the range damage for clutch potential but i dont see where is that potential in the changes
Im sorry but the entire nerf section is very misguided and i’ll get straight to the point,
The nerf to the battle wizard is indirectly caused by pyromancer being without an identity as stated it caused a stark but false example of a class being overpowered and with Unchained being high risk(medium reward not going to lie) and the Necromancer being an unique class they caused the already underperforming characters best class to shine as the golden egg for taking.
Outcast Engineer is a case of clunkiness sure but changes made are not addressing that at all when looking in hindsight as half the upsides comes with a downside and when looking at the whole picture it is all over the place, the same case of being a golden egg is here but instead of being addressed as overpowered outcast engineer is under performing and clunky compared to other career and ESPECIALLY conflicts with Ranger Veteran just like Sienna, stated just now, here he is tried(said) to fit into the role of the ranged career while being buffed in the opposite direction of being a generalist by a buff to his Healt and given a bomb talent while simultaniously nerfing his capability to use his gun inside fights by making it even more clunky to use and all of this further increase his conflict with Ranger Veteran, ideally it is supposed to just buff the initial power of engineers gun while keeping the potential the same and give him some alternative talents a revamp to include few general suviveability tools like attack speed, stamina regeneration or an entirely new stagger tool built in similar to Ironbreaker but weaker, while keeping the identities of each one of Bardin’s careers the same, Outcast Engineer: Ranged Powerhouse, Slayer: Marauder, Ironbreaker: Tank, Ranger Veteran: Generalist while also also keeping what Bardins career has in general: surviveability. As a last note Ranged Veteran is along with Ironbreaker uses the dlc weapons batter than Engineer because weapons are inherently strong and need not any specialization to use to their full potential practically(Trollhammer topedo, Pistol, Coghammer) which increases the more surviveable careers practicality above that of Engineer
The boss killer classes potency was balanced around them being harder to use and lesser suvivability so they can do their job as the much needed careers for a balanced game for every ones run on harder difficulties and modes the fact that they do their jobs too good reinforced that the problems are bosses entirely many other careers are entirely unequipped to deal with those threats and when a team is without a boss killer they are in a complete halt when it comes to map progression, the tradeoff of being harder to use and lesser potency in other areas(low horde killing, medium-high elite killing, low survivability) was specially apparent on Bounty Hunter, Shade(All kerillians careers count as she is THE glass cannon and developer favorite) this does not reflect what some other boss killer carrers are which does reflect any of that examples include: Ranger Veteran w/pistol, Battle Wizard w/Corustacean and Ironbreaker w/Topedo all of the share a similarity in that all of them use a dlc weapon to deal with a threat normally not within their capability to do so all intentional by design(Grail Knight is excluded because while not being a renged focused carrer nor a carrer without any problems surviving a horde he is the career without any ranged weaponry to effectively deal with specials(Warrior Priest while similar has other means of surviving said encounters(Shield of Faith))) so it is the weapons fault not any career specific problems in that they posses stonges weapons with the best survivability among many; ideally it should be handled that bosses aren’t the roadblocks as big as they are with less health points in higher difficulties so much of the careers have an easier time dealing with such issues and only than the bosskillers nerfed to balance out the competicion between careers, BUT and that is a big but that whould take away from the fun of cooparating the career choices of your fellow players to come with a workable team in high difficulties, and it whould also take a lot of resource to get the numbers right so it is an entirely unnececary thing to do considering the identity of the boss killers are pretty strong on their on right and need no tuning to make it less obligatory to have in higher difficulties and just need to set the stone right for those careers whoes supposed specialization does not match the status quo they are in; the big problem is laid out that bosses are a big problem with majority of the cast not having effective even feasible means of getting rid of them, so i whould advise making each of the characters one career to be an able bosskiller so it does not take away from other careers in characters which does have a bosskiller, and have the most willing player in the lobby can instantly play a bosskiller on the character they enjoy; and the groundwork for it is already ready for those characters that do not have any, those are generally ranged characters and all this rant is just for two characters that do not have it right:
Bardin, having their most effective boss killing potential behind beefy Ironbreaker and Ranger Veteran; instead of Outcast Engineer, it is half right that Ranger Veteran should be able to deal with it in relative ease but not to this degree that we see in game with the pistol, otherwise fine, Ironbreaker w/Topedo is effective but not the best it can be left untouched or a slight nerf to damage only to the torpedo
And Sienna without an effective mean when comparing to any other characters bosskiller Pyromancer should be in a position in that it is a considerable choice and other carrers having a slight edge so to not fall behind other characters as a whole; only problem, but also the only solution was Corustacean staff but that was nerfed and we can only hope it was not overdone to kill sienna as a whole.
I can summarize as pulling the nerfs back and considering what makes a career stand out in that character and if it is because of a weapon for that specific purpose compared to what it should be.
Da Wall of Teaxt(I should probably open a new discussion feed)
Nice! I look forward to changes to freshen up the experience for Vermintide 2. Two things though:
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Could you first put this into a beta branch to gather community feedback from all players before releasing to official realm, it seems these changes may be controversial for some players so it’d be nice to do another pass and or address other things if needed. It’d be especially potent if you do an announcement of how players can access this beta branch. You want to gather as much feedback as possible from everyone before pushing this to public.
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Please look into increasing the Dual Daggers block range. It’s by far the most clunky weapon I’ve ever played with. In contrast, Sword 'n Daggers feels better to use. The issue is mainly attributed to how attacks randomly make it through block even if I’m holding block. That’s it mainly, also, maybe a slight increase to its push block radius.
Thank you for the wonderful changes!
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Looks like a standard mix of decent sounding changes, questionable changes, and changes that I don’t understand the impetus for at all. Still, glad to see something on the balance front. It is long overdue.
Mostly I’m concerned that nerfing BH’s main shtick without any other changes leaves the career dead in the water. Double Shotted was very dumb yes, but it was also the thing that kept the career relevant. At the very least Bounty Hunter’s long, long standing THP woes should have been addressed.
I’m also concerned that these engi changes will render the crank gun kinda crap outside of Gromril Plated Shot builds. Nerfing the base crank gun build in order to make Linked Compression Chamber better seems absolutely bizarre to me. And removing Leading Shots makes non-GPS builds absolutely worthless against armor in addition to nerfing crank gun monster DPS.
Why is that an issue at all? Not like Leading Shots was even half as good as Gromil Plated Shot at killing stormvermin, let alone chaos warriors. But it gave non-Gromril crank guns decent enough special killing.
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