Deed reward scaling

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Feedback
1

One thing I’ve noticed about deeds is that they don’t scale very well to the difficulty at the high end. It’s possible to get a 3-mutator legend deed with abduction that is only worth 1 emperor’s vault. And right beside that is another one that is slightly different but worth 2 emperor’s vaults instead. There should be more of a gradient between the two. In addition to that some mutators in combination make the game much harder than they would individually and the game doesn’t factor that into the reward.

So here’s what I would recommend:

  1. Each mutator on a deed has a level rating, each level of difficulty adds one level of quality to the reward chest for that difficulty level. So for instance if you have a champion deed with a single level 5 mutator the reward will be a general’s chest.
  2. If the total level rating of all mutators combined is higher than 6 it makes the first reward emperor quality and adds a second reward chest using the remainder. If the total is above 12 it adds a third reward chest.
  3. For deeds with more than one mutator it adds +1 reward level for each additional mutator.
  4. Certain mutator combinations can add an additional 1-3 reward levels if both are present. These are things like ambient enemies are replaced by elites + double strength elites. Or abduction + sudden death, or extra hordes + extra specials etc.
  5. Depending on what map the deed is for you can get an additional bonus based on the length of the map and whether or not it has a boss or a guaranteed monster spawn. Skittergate would give both bonuses.

So to sum things up deeds would have a difficulty rating from 1-18, or possibly even higher. Each level of difficulty rating gives you a level of reward quality. 6 quality on champion results in an emperor’s chest, 7 quality gets you an emperors and a peasants chest, and so on.

Would you prefer this system instead of the current somewhat arbitrary deed rewards? On the one hand you now get exactly what you earned, on the other hand this system can result in a lot of peasants/commoners/merchant rewards that are almost worthless unless you are on legend. It also somewhat de-values deeds with only one multiplier because you miss out on the multi-deed bonus, unless we also have access to a system for crafting and merging deeds together.

On a related note I think they should change Abduction to “players take 3-4 times longer to respawn” instead of “players never respawn”. The simple fact is that it’s not fun to sit and watch your party complete the map without you, if they complete it at all. Sometimes when I am doing deeds with pubs anyone who dies during an abduction deed will immediately quit regardless of the reward.

6 Likes
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I agree. I dont know why fs likes so much random.

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I don’t think that the current rewards are arbitrary, but rather a combination of obscurity and a result of misjudged difficulty of several modifiers. I also don’t think the fact that some modifiers by themselves aren’t that significant, at least for experienced players (Abduction or Sudden Death, for example), but taken together make the experience a lot harder, is reflected in the rewards in any way. Vanguard + HBFS is another fun combo, even if neither one alone makes the run that much harder. All that makes the rewards feel quite arbitrary, though, and at the very least, make it seem like the reward system wasn’t completely thought through.

I can’t really say how much better your suggestion would be (without knowing what the current structure is), but it would at least reduce the obscurity part, and give a higher potential reward (and possibly, otherwise wider reward range, too). Misjudging the modifier difficulty is a thing that needs a bit longer to fix, and some research too. The combined modifiers’ difficulty is even harder to decide, I think, and might require some hand-crafting to the parameters. Your suggestion actually might be quite close to what lies under the hood, but including a few extra considerations. Personally, I’d certainly appreciate if the Deed rewards got a bit more consistent with their actual difficulty, and reduce the obscurity so that we’d have a better feel of consistent rewards.

There is also a final consideration, I think: Some of the modifiers’ seriousness changes a lot between game difficulties. Seek and Destroy, for example, can bring in an incredible amount of Specials on Legend, but they appear rarely enough on Veteran (for example) that when I have tried those, I’ve hardly felt the difference. (Okay, admittedly that’s been a long time ago, but still.) Similarly, HBFS, while still making the Elites endure and hurt more, doesn’t make them immensely more dangerous on lower difficulty while on Legend it turns them into one-hit killing machines (and disturbingly tough, too) that only a few Careers can survive, especially with any Grimoires.

And yes, Abduction is certainly badly designed. It’s either irrelevant (if nobody goes permanently down) or denies one (or more) players any kind of meaningful input. Making someone sit out a run (or effectively forcing a retry, especially without practical means of doing it) is not good design in any way. While the change to merely a huge delay to respawning would remove the worse of the two problems (and honestly, would make the modifier at least playable, even if it would still be one of the more annoying ones), the fact that the modifier is irrelevant unless someone actually does need rescuing would still stay. Even that could be fixed, maybe by also multiplying the time needed to help a buddy up by two or something else, but in all honesty I’m of the mind that losing the whole modifier wouldn’t be a huge loss. It has a faulty design from the start, and it’s hard work coming up with alternatives, at least ones that still retain the idea while dodging the two pitfalls.

2 Likes
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I dare say the answer is dice, random.

A lot of things have already been pointed out about heroic deeds, a rework is welcome simply because these modifiers are great. If deeds more consistently rewarded additional chests for harder modifiers, more would be consider braving them I’m sure.

What if some deeds offered up an additional chest similar to one gotten from completing a mission, with modifiers as chest quality multipliers instead of tomes, grimories & dice?

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I kinda like Abduction because it really challenges you to not die or let a team mate die.
Gives the run some real intensity.

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Just dont die 4Head

Yo guys better ask why back to basics never fixed and why is is so small reward when its basically deathwish?

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That’s one of the things I meant by “misjudging modifier difficulty”. It’s the easier one to notice, though, as it seems to always appear alone. While the double Emperors’ Deeds are usually actually hard, I remember occasionally thinking that the reward for some combinations was quite a big one for the actual difficulty, so that’s the other side.

And yeah, BtB is another modifier that requires some rethinking, I think.

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KappaPride

9

Isn’t it harder than deathwish? 5 hero power and no talents at all…

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talents still working, just 5 power and no properties on equip

11

I did a game the other day and they weren’t working? No temp HP generation either…

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Check it again Kappa Right now my WS stays at start of BtB deed and regens ammo. and lvl 25 talents work

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Clients can use talent on BTB and it is bug considering decription

That’s why i don’t host when i do BTB deed

1 Like
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Also, as same way, power after 0 ammo talent can be applied for client only

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