Could not agree more with this. Chip damage should not be able to deplete your last point of HP. Zealot is such a feelsbad with this mechanic around.
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totally agree with everything said here i am having this issue only with melee hits against me. the ranged ones seem to have to go through my toughness. but that glass shattering noise you are supposed to get when your toughness depletes and you take health damage is now happening every. single. hit. frustrating and getting annoying.
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It’s even worse for Thunder Hammerers, the weapon is in a nightmarish state atm.
You’d expect it to be great but its kill potential is gimped by several factors, primarily its inability to do reliable damage.
When compared to other cleaving weapons, fighting with the Thunder Hammer feels a lot like swinging around one of those foam pool noodles, it just knocks things around so your allies can get the kills - I guess that’s a niche but frankly it’s not very fun to me and I would prefer to have a bigger impact than mere displacement of the enemy.
So keeping that in mind, you’d think it would excel in killing elites and single targets.
Sure, but only in theory and not in practice.
It can one shot all but one of the Ogryn mobs if you use its special ability AND do a full 100% charged heavy attack - but the problem is that the heavy attack is horizontal and your charged up special lightning attack will probably land on a trash mob, and here’s the kicker: that one enemy that you hit is the only enemy that will be effected in any way by the resulting LIGHTNING EXPLOSION.
I know this discussion is centered around the toughness mechanic but as a Trust VI Zealot who wanted to use the Thunder Hammer, I find that the weapon’s shortcomings work in conjunction with the toughness problems with such incredible synergistic efficiency that I couldn’t help but state my particular grievances.
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Man, mass stagger is a staple of 2h hammers in Tide games. It’d be a shame if it worked different. You can wade through an army like Sauron.
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I agree but at the moment that’s all it seems to do, knock things around, scatter enemies all over the floor but the same effect could be achieved by blowing high-powered bursts of air at the mobs - I want to break them apart, not push 'em around.
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amen
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“As intended” is dumb and unfun. They had a working model for this play style in the other game and the talents were clearly planned around that play style. Chip damage downing through full toughness completely negates that play style.
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Jumping on the bandwagon here. I found this because I wondered if there was a bug, sadly it seems not.
I was just in a game where I was at single digit health dealing with a fat horde. I see a scab shotgunner come around the corner and I do a quick tactical calculation: how is my toughness? oh, its like 70%, okay, I’m gonna accept this trash hitting me a couple of times and lowering my toughness while I take out the special threat since I’ll be able to regain it when go back to taking out the trash again. So I turn, get one heavy wack on the special and then … go down to floor, toughness still intact (over 50%). WTF!?
So, I guess once you’re low health you just accept you’re screwed if anything gets spicy? Feels bad, particularly on Zealot, where there’s incentives to play at lower health and your role is supposedly to frontline. I guess, stop frontlining until you find health? In other words, play worse for the team? This was a team of 2 psykers and a sharpshooter (a game design choice, for sure). I was the only one doing the front-line work. These tactical choices are a big part of what I think makes tide games fun. It feels like things aremore limited in these scenarios. Less dynamic.
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I agree with everyone here re: zealot. Making the last remaining 1hp immune to toughness bleed through so that you can’t die until you lose your toughness seems like an easy and reasonable fix.
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Yeah I had to pop off because I just can’t take it anymore.
Thunder Hammer is weak af, but I found a second one and thought it would be better with a toughness regen on multiple hit trait.
It doesn’t mean a thing if you regen toughness when hordes of enemies can just nuke your HP through it anyway.
Man idk wtf Fat Shark was thinking with some of these decisions but I am straight up not having a good time.
The problem isn’t the Toughness mechanic to me. The issue is everything else.
At some point in development, I think Toughness completely absorbed all damage. The tutorial even implies it. So they gave the enemy lots of capability to hit you despite your best efforts, just to keep the pressure up. High accuracy, predatory AI targeting behavior, lots of ranged guys and Vermintide’s classic BS spawn behavior dialed to 11.
But then they probably got feedback that the game was still too easy. And so Toughness became damage reduction vs. damage negation. But they never dialed back the rest of their assumptions after that change. When every hit = damage at the end of the day, you have to slacken up the pressure elsewhere.
If they toned down the AI’s aim and targeting behavior, and cut back on the absolutely classic Fatshark BS spawns, then the chip damage would be less frustrating. Either that or make it go back to the original design of negating all damage until it’s gone. At this point, the former seems more necessary than the latter.
On top of all the other behavior though, once you hit difficulty curve in the right place, toughness doesn’t seem to do much. And as it’s currently implemented, why would it?
Truth be told the toughness machanic combined with chipping and trauma damage is just outright stupid. Its another case of Fatshark tried to reinvent the wheel here.
There was nothing wrong with the THP system in VT, but for some reason FS seems to have to out for the temp health system.
I hate to say it, but the truth be told, Darktide is 2 steps back, and 1 step back again, in every single way mechanically, when compared to Vermintide.
All anyone wanted, and all fatshark had to do, we litearlly just remake everything about VT, but with a 40k skin. However they decided to take something everyone really enjoyed then “Spice it up.” The toughness, chip damage, and trama system is such an example. Whats worse is the trama system is basically lifted right off of Back4Blood, which why you would want to copy ANYTHING from the train wreck of a game is beyond me.
It is my hope that Fatshark goes back to the drawing board and re-evaluates the state of the meachnics of this game.
Being part of the closed beta, i can tell you i did not see a single thread saying the game way ever, at any point, to easy. haha.
There have been three betas, to my knowledge, plus feedback from smaller groups. I’ve been in two Betas. I didn’t see much feedback about the game being too easy either. But FS looks at game stats and makes decisions based on those, so they might have felt that they needed to increase the pressure on players.
I think toughness can work the way it is currently implemented, but other things need to adjust for it to feel right.
It’s especially silly when you play Ogryn and the whole point of your talent tree is to heavy melee attack, but that means you take constant chip damage even with full toughness and just existing means you die a slow but inevitable death.
I guess it’s on theme though.
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