Crank Gun should be more rewarding to use

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#1

After playing with engineer for sometime, I feel crank gun should be better than what it’s now.

The minigun wind-up and slow down while firing are iconic features of heavy weapon but they hinder engineer’s performance a lot, I would suggest few changes:

(1)Buff armor penetration of normal crank gun, I find it lackluster for ult unable to damage chaos warrior and deal little damage to normal armored enemy. Since building pressure is not a benefit but a liability, I think higher armor penetration can be justified.

(2)Rework with Piston Power as knock back enemy around bardin when hit, keep the cooldown. The idea of piston power is really cool but as ranged character I find it a waste of talent in a lot of situations.

(3)Gromril-Plated Shot gains increased damage and the ability to stagger elite/boss. Right now the talent takes ages to kill chaos warrior(which is the main reason to choose this) and sacrifice a lot at dealing with horde. Giving it ability to stagger powerful foes makes engineer viable at soloing boss.

(4)Linked Compression Chamber boosts fire rate and allow bardin to move freely (no slow down) while firing crank gun. Currently this talent is worthless in comparison with innovative ammo hopper. By removing slow down and a little fire rate boost it should work very well with run-and-gun playstyle.

(5) Innovative Ammo Hopper no longer has 4 sec free ult after killing a special, this talent is by far the best of 3 with +50% ability bar(more damage overall), giving armor penetration buff will be too busted.

Right now ranger veteran with masterwork pistol can take care of chaos warrior and bosses way more efficiently, the minigun should offer more to qualify engineer as ranged DPS dwarf.

#2

It’s already great and extremely good at Horde/unarmoured clear and Boss killing. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that it was lacking anything.

It’s a more precise Flamethrower with longer range.

If you run Leading Shots it does pretty decent damage to Elites without the need of Linked Compression Chamber.

6 Likes
#3

I disagree with most of what you say.

The normal crank gun melts anything not armored ; and that is satisfying and rewarding to use.
Gromril-plated and armor piercing slugs melts a SV or a chaos patrol.
Normal gatling + leading shots somewhat work on armored elites, if you aim for the head it helps a lot.

Take a strength pot (or a concoction) and you’ll be more than capable of soloing bosses.

I agree that I wouldn’t use piston power, but turning it into a Gromril curse is not what I’d do…

The one thing I’d change is allow cranking when the bar is full if you’re using the Experimental steam capacitors talent.

4 Likes
#4

Try kill a boss with the minigun by yourself and see how often you need to stop firing and pull out melee weapon.

I am aware experimental steam capacitor+innovative ammo hopper is too good at clearing horde.

Better than flamethrower? Yes, but it’s your ult with manual cranking required.

1 Like
#5

Concotion+minigun was what I had in mind, but since you deal consecutive damage the boss quickly turns around to attack you, everytime I tried I needed teammates to help me before I could kill it.

I think on higher difficulty you need to be able to stagger the boss like bh’s ult

#6

It’s not a single player game, and I find the Boss damage to be fine, even without the use of a potion. All you need is someone to bomb/stun the Boss, if it goes on you.

We already have ridiculous Boss damage in the game, and don’t need more. Especially from Range.

It’s supposed to act as more of a third Weapon. And yeah, if you run Experimental Steam Capacitors, you can have it out and use it as a Flamethrower- type Weapon, whilst equipping a different, longer ranged Weapon.

The only problem I’ve had with his Crank gun is SV being too close, and not being supported at that exact moment. That’s a positioning/timing issue on my own part.

Issues with specific Talents don’t mean it needs any buffs, it just means that those Talents need to be made more usable.

Then why are you asking for any sort of a buff? It’s already rewarding at it’s function.

Are we just going to end up with every new Career being able to stunlock Bosses into oblivion, like Grail Knight? It’s supposed to be a team game. You can’t have one Career that’s suddenly immune from one type of enemy and can do all of their damage without any downsides.

3 Likes
#7

Fair point.
On the other hand, I haven’t really encountered the issue as there is, from experience, always someone capable of staggering the boss, whether it be a Merc, GK, WHC, UC, or anyone with a grenade.
If the boss is alone, they generally die in less than 20 seconds. If there is a horde, as an Engi, I think you have other priorities than focusing the monster.

1 Like
#8

It’s a team game, but engineer relies on teammates more than other classes. You can’t expect your teammates to cover you everytime, and I am sure I am not the only one who feel low mobility and manual cranking tedious and difficult to manage in the heat of battle, while the result is not what I expected.

The steam capacitor+ammo hopper build is good(maybe too good), but the others not so much, as I said linked compression chamber is pointless in comparison.

Since you take away ironbreaker, ranger veteran to play engineer, his downside becomes very prominent.

I don’t know how you define engineer, I see him as ranged DPS. If I want crowd control, I will take ironbreaker+drakegun, way better and easier.

#9

It is true that Engi relies on teammates, but I wouldn’t say more than other classes. When I get my crank gun out, I do expect teammates to cover me ; and when I see a teammate Engi get his crank gun out for the horde, I’m not running in in front of his bullets to try to get green circles : I’m standing by him and covering him.
That’s my take on how the game is supposed to be played though.

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#10

Guess my experience with teammates is not as good as yours.

Engineer in my eyes is support+DPS, so yes I will take on boss. Then again, ranger veteran with masterwork pistol can melt things quicker and also be a support to the team.

#11

Now you’re addressing the niche Engi is supposed to fill. I see him as the guy who has both a drakefire and a handgun, and 3 grenades.

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#12

He’s a glass cannon DPS, but I’m not sure how that translates into another Boss stun ult. Other than on Cata+ and Twitch, Bosses are a straight forward scenario on Legend and Cata.

If you suggested some kind of CC to Elites, I wouldn’t have minded, but Bosses just doesn’t make sense.

You don’t need to be the one DPSing the Boss, anyway, and his toolkit is good for both Boss damage and Horde/Special clear.

I would be all for some AoE CC on Elite density for him, but not Bosses. It would make no sense.

Also, I don’t see him as worse than IB, if you’re able to play him as a DPS:
Flamethrower with Heat Sink and Leading Shots
Superior Gaskets
Innovative Ammo Hoppers

Rotate between Flamethrower on every Horde and it demolishes them. For THP sustain, just use a Shield Weapon, Boon of Shallya and Stagger THP.

#13

Personally don’t think filling a niche is good enough to see play. The utility belt is interesting, sometimes my teammates were mad that I took their bombs :frowning:

#14

That’s nonsense. Every one has some kind of niche, and that’s precisely why we play them.

In my experience, teammates give bombs to Engi…

2 Likes
#15

I tried drakegun+ammo hopper, definitely great against horde, lacking against armored enemies. Plus you seem to agree some talents are better than the others.

My suggestion for ult staggering boss is that while other classes can move around and deal damage, engineer has to keep shooting while basically standing still. If there is other solutions, I am all for it.

#16

Engineer is just a pack mule for bombs, there’s no reason to give him bombs unless he is running Bombardier.

#17

I always equip ablative armor🤔

1 Like
#18

The problems are all about team comp.

If you’re going Flamethrower, your team should be high Elite killing, with some Special killing. You’ve taken Hordes out of the equation.

The Boss killing issue is completely down to team knowledge and your own decisions. (fair enough Engi is new, and not everyone will be stunning the Boss off you)

  • Kill Horde instead of Boss
  • Ask or expect your team to CC the Boss when it switches to you

This has been my strat, and it’s worked fine. It’s completely doable too, so I don’t think he needs a Boss stun.

My friend chooses to pull Boss aggro, jump the knockback hits, change Weapon in mid air and continue Crankgunning the Boss, but each to their own. He’s like some kind of anime dwarf.

He does seem to suit some CC, but more Boss CC on top of damage is not needed, imo. Other than possibly a slow.

An Elite slow or knockback would be preferrable in the long run, as Bosses can sometimes happen 0-1 time a match, and Engi is a glass cannon for all of it. That one pain in the butt Monk who takes you out without you even realising he’s that close will still happen.

Something similar to Gromril Curse or a sort of ‘net’ or ‘trap’ that roots or slows enemies would be really cool and fitting, but I’m not sure how they’d do it. Mine type mechanic, but CC not damage?

(I really wish they’d experiment more with CC. Conflag and Shields work so well in the right comps, slows and roots could work in this game too)

3 Likes
#19

That’s true, every class has different specialty. In the case of engineer though, I would love to see him as a more independent character.

#20

Change Piston Power to a ranged CC mechanic perhaps?
‘Slowing Shots’
‘Oily bullets’ :woman_shrugging:
Bombs cause a slowing area.

I mean it’s basically the water mechanic, but on enemies.

2 Likes
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