Combat shotguns are STILL in abysmal state

I made a post on it before a while ago, and everything seems to hold true still. With one exception, now there is a shining beacon of how combat shotguns could feel with the arbitrator.

Zarona, bad. Agrippina, workable but bolt guns do almost everything it can better due to being mag fed. Accatran, a fun meme, but in the end nothing very serious. Basically the ammo capacity of them needs to go down and their damage needs to go up to compensate. And breach loading needs to be added to provide an advantage to tubular fixed magazine weapons over detachable magazine fed guns.

It feels like shotguns exist almost purely for melee builds to quick swap to for a quick special shell. That feels bad.

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I actually like them quite alot in auric now, no idea how they perform in havoc though.

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tbh, they made them a weakspot weapon…
where I was waiting a body oriented weapon with a large spread.

so damages and damages when weakspot with small differences. And even critical… I would not have made them so good related to critical chances.

They feel SO wrong for me… and I have made everything I could to like them.

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Have you tried shooting them towards enemies.

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Reading that thread made me mad. I loved using Rippers before Bound by Duty :sob:

My number one issue with Combat Shotguns is mobility. The movespeed slowdown and inability to sprint during reloading hurts it. Because Magazine Capacity is affected by the ammo stat, a higher ammo stat has a direct negative impact on time spent reloading. Talents that increase mag capacity also negatively impact reload times. And base game mechanics also negatively impact reload times.

I remember getting into mild arguments with a few here that were worried making shotguns highly mobile would be bad for the game before they were buffed with the Arbie release, only for all of us to realize how much time was being spent on reloading defeating all of the gains shotties got.

So, you reload more slowly when reloading an empty magazine on all weapons. You reload slightly faster if it’s a partial reload. Veteran’s talent Tactical Reload buffs this specific mechanic. Shotguns don’t trigger a partial reload speed increase after the first shell unless you interrupt the reload.

I spend so much time micromanaging putting a single shell into the gun that I sometimes forget these things are actually pretty good at suppression. I legitimately want the Combat Shotguns to have new rules made to how the game treats them while reloading.

Damage I feel like is a whole issue and a half. Bound By Duty buffed all enemies to make, what, five weapons feel fair? That’s left everything feeling bad to me.

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Agrapinaa Combat Shotgun is superior in Havoc than the Exterminator Shotguns

I wouldn’t underrate their dmg with ADS, at least on Agrapinaa

I’d like for you to send some gameplay with Exterminator and some gameplay with Agrapinaa Shotgun, to compare where it feels bad

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I run Zarona on Veteran a lot in auric, usually get close to a million damage if people stop doing their thing and it goes long. Ammo is abundant as hell, I can kill everything but mauler and crusher in one hit. Probably my favorite backup for my ā€˜I will power sword’ build, ganks BoN/Spawn very fast as well and gives me high movement speed. The hipfire does more damage to unarmored for some reason so its one of my fastest weapons for clearing hordes of dreg gunners/stalkers. Dunno what additionally people want out of guns anymore…

they should give the Accatran a bit more distance and ADM into certain targets, feels really good with things that extend ā€˜close range’, bit disappointing breakpoints otherwise. but between this update and last enemy HP buff it was really good, I was actually running it a lot on the cop even…but now it falls back, because there’s no route to damage with the flatter finesse curve.

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It is a weird conundrum, especially when you consider that an entire section of a veteran’s tree pushes you towards making headshots, and shotguns aren’t really built for that outside of point blank ranges, where you’re generally better off melee’ing.

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If I’m not shooting my team mates, I’m not playing I=

Funny you bring that up though, I’ll need to test it, but another major difference between shotguns and other guns seems to be the ability for you to shoot through your team mates. Correct me if I’m wrong but outside of special shells shotguns seem to lose damage for doing so, where stuff like the zarona revolver and bolter don’t.

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All shotguns perform better in ADS, see the following min pellet count chart (From top to bottom: Double Barrel, Zarona, Agripinaa, Accatran):

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I have just said what I expected from a shotgun… exactly what you see in all movies, tv shows and games. Something that you aim in chest or stomach and see the enemy on floor.
Not something that you need to precisely aim the head to hurt an enemy. This is the actual situation in Darktide… the unique game where I have seen such shotgun concept, a shotgun headhunter…

And shotguns are used by zealots, arbitres, psykers, scums and veterans…

But as they are actually, I feel them pathetic and useless. Only Arbitres shotguns (the 2 marks are excellent) is good as a shotgun. Sadly, I cannot get a proper shotgun for my zealot or my scum…

In the entire year since you still haven’t figured out that the combat shotguns are already really good at some things and not great at others?

From my experience using the slug shotgun on Zealot and Arbitrator(mostly in Havoc 20-30 and Aurics)the main problems are ammo capacity and reload behavior.

The core issue is that this shotgun has a 13 rounds baseline. The long-barreled Executioner shotgun has only 4, and the double-barrel has 2. How did we go from 4 rounds to almost four times that amount, while the character still loads shells one by one? This problem isn’t limited to just one mark either - the other variants have 9 and 11 rounds iirc, and they suffer from the same issue.

This leads to a feeling I think everyone who uses these weapons has experienced: ā€œWhy do I reload so much?ā€

That’s how I felt constantly. Not only do these shotguns consume ammo almost as fast as a bolter, but they also have a similar magazine size, while still reloading shell by shell. On top of that, they are worse in terms of damage. Their only real upside compared to the bolter is that they’re faster to pull out, use, and move with. Overall, there are still more downsides to these shotguns than to the bolter.

That’s probably why you see far more bolters than combat shotguns. When you use a bolter, the feeling is: ā€œOh wow, this thing is cool. Big damage. Daka-daka.ā€

When you use a shotgun, the feeling is more like: ā€œWhy do I reload so much? Why did this guy need four shots to die - he’s just a gunner? Where is my ammo? This feels useless.ā€

I think a good solution would be to reduce magazine size(while the ammo reserve would stay the same) and give proportionally higher damage in return(from 14 to 8, from 11 to 6 and from 9 to 4 probably). Alternatively, the shotguns could get some kind of fast loader that loads the entire magazine at once.

Special shells

Another issue is the special ammo. It still loads one shell at a time, and I honestly don’t understand the purpose of one of the specials in particular.

• Wide spread stun shell

I never use this and find it overall useless. A shell that loads one at a time just to stun enemies in a ā€œwideā€ spread or kill a bunch of poxwalkers? You know what already does that? Heavy 1 from the relic blade - or any other horizontal heavy or push attack from a heavier melee weapon.

Yes, the shell has a lot of forward cleave, but most situations where stagger is needed are right around the player, and using a melee weapon is simply much better than doing it with a shotgun.

And that raises the question: what is the purpose of this variant at all?

The fire shell deals better with elites(even armoured ones)because it has a DoT. It also performs similarly against hordes. The slug shell is better for specials and light elites. This leaves the stun shell shotgun with a redundant niche. This poor state could open a window for a rework of the special. For example, the special could apply Brittleness - perhaps weaker than the Executioner shotgun’s version but usable more often, or equal in strength but compensated by the fact that the base shot of this shotgun is worse than the Executioner’s in terms of damage. This would give it an anti-armoured elite niche, where the special both staggers and applies Brittleness, instead of larping as horizontal melee heavy attack.

• Fire shell

This one is probably fine as is, but it could benefit from a slightly wider spread so it’s easier to catch more enemies in the fire effect.

• Slug shell

I’ve used this one a lot, but I still have questions. Does it one-shot any non-armored, non-unyielding enemy with a headshot at any distance in Havoc 40, when used with a melee-focused Zealot, Scum, or Arbitrator build? Probably not.

For example, on auric, my Martyrdom Zealot does not one-shot a Scab Gunner with a slug headshot unless it crits - it deals around ~1670 out of 1700 HP from a base state with no respite, full bore and +25% flak. In real gameplay this is often mitigated by team damage and buffs, but it would be nice if the slug was consistent and could always one-shot non-carapace, non-unyielding enemies on a headshot, without needing ranged buffs beyond its own perks and blessings. Considering the reload time for the special, it really should function as a reliable gunner / special killer at any distance, at least with headshots or crit body shots. Normal body shots might be too much, especially since the weapon effectively has an almost unlimited supply of special shells.

Overall take and conclusions

A good suggestion to fix the combat shotguns could be to:

  • Decrease magazine size

  • Increase damage proportionally

Or

  • Reduce the need to reload constantly by adding some sort of fast loader

Make the slug and fire(not really needed) specials more consistent, and rework the stun shell -perhaps by giving it a Brittleness effect like the Executioner shotgun, or by increasing the stun strength on the first targets hit so it’s more effective against Crushers, for example.

Their role as a sidearm for melee builds would be fine, if not for the fact that they aren’t particularly good sidearms. You’re almost always better off taking a revolver, bolt pistol, or executioner shotgun - those weapons feel great :+1: (except the fast-firing revolver…). These combat shotguns should be comparable to them in both feel and performance.

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No, I’ve been bitching since the beginning, sadly.

Is this really so bad?


Don’t get me wrong there are definitely more effective guns in the game and after magdumping those guys I had a long reload to look forward to (I wouldn’t mind a reload speed buff) but it did it’s job.

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that’s just veteran in general i’d dare to say

Meanwhile the team’s like :waving_hand: while sprinting forward

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Nah not that team they spent most of the match on the ground thank the emprah for revive speed curios.

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That’s an option, too :laughing:

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No hate though I had fun playing with them