Buffing the T1 Ogryn feats isn't the right solution

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
21

Rush into melee range with an extra long range charge and get your toughness deleted in the process.
Some of the shooters will switch into melee mode, but some will still be shooting you.
While your attackspeed boost from the ult is up, quickly smash a few of the guys that switched to melee, while you are getting shot by a few other guys (regenerating some toughness with confident strike and getting some from kills).

Now you have to clean up the guys that are still shooting at you, which are usually a bit more spread out, and next to, or behind some type of cover (which is quite often something that even an ogryn can use to hide behind).

Pick an engagement and run/slide in, opening with a strikedown heavy attack to restore some of the toughness you lost while getting shot at.
While fighting the small group of shooters that was hiding behind the cover you decided to engage, you can now use the cover to your advantage (against the other shooters) and use your feat to fully restore your toughness from even just a few targets. Now you can safely engage the next group of covering shooters.

Repeat until all of the shooting guys behind cover are cleaned up.
If there are shooters standing out in the open, run/slide at them and open with a strikedown heavy to restore some of the toughness they took from you with their bullets (either afterwards, or while moving between the covering groups, depending on their positioning).

While doing this and pulling most of the fire on yourself, hope that your teammates are useful and either join you in melee, or support you with their ranged weapons (hopefully focusing down threats instead of mag dumping into the same guys that you are currently slapping around).

Without the “toughness from hitting 1 guy with heavy attack” feat, you would have little to no toughness for the almost the entirety of this engagement, and would lose a ton of health.
With this feat, you lose almost no health.

This is pretty much how i clean up ranged units as ogryn.
Works in basically every situation (more or less safe, depending on the surroundings).
Would not work without the feat, because i would be missing a few hundred toughness throughout the engagement and this means, i would likely die.

22

Using the ult to close the gap, engaging the enemy into melee, mulch through enemies to gain back toughness from confident strike and kills, where in this scenario is the t1 feat that lets you get back 25% toughness on a single hit helping at all? At the end of it? If there is only a small group, is that what you have trouble surviving against?

What about teammates, are they unavailable? Sliding is forever an option and puts of the pressure for toughness gains or just switch to a ranged weapon to take out a few of them and suppressing the rest until you can close the gap is also an option.

I do like that you did give a more detailed description of a scenario that you feel that you’ll gain something from the feat, but it is a t1 feat, and as such you can expect the bonus to be as strong as that and nothing more.

23

When ever you are not fighting a big blob of enemies, that would give you massive toughness regen from kills.
If you look closely, that is every moment after the first block of text.

No, but you can not rely on them.

Ogryn still takes damage while sliding.

What is that supposed to mean?
“No matter what they actually do, all T1 feats are bad, because they are already unlocked at lvl 5.”?

24

That the feats are designed to give a slight bump in what ever it is that they do, I did not say that they are bad but that you need to have that in mind when you gauge the effect from them. The first time you mention a heavy single attack is when you get to the clean up phase on how to deal with the spread out shooters.

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Correct.
The “cleanup” after the initial mowing down of the most dense formation, is more than half of the time of the entire engagement.
During this time, you can not sustain your toughness on kills anymore, because you do not have big groups of small guys that you can mow down. The kills/time are too low now, and the big group of enemies in melee no longer protects you from lasgun fire.
You can also not sustain your toughness with confident strike, because you can not constantly chain your attacks against enemies that are spread out.
However, it is during this time, that you get shot a lot and would need a lot of toughness.

26

Slightly OT rant on Vids (you’ve been warned) : Not to be a contrarian, but a good (the minority) player can do just fine in damnation with just about any weapon. Even before the much needed kickback buff patch, a good player could technically do it; the game ain’t exactly hard for a good player. These videos aren’t exactly slam dunk case closed arguments.

Back to our story:

It feels like many of the heavy sweeps, and the current ogryn design is still heavy-centric, feel like you’re swinging through molasses in January. Luckily H2 on Club1 got a speed buff not long ago, but say the wind-up on the new barbed wire 3b feels unusually slow for some reason.

I’m generally a fan of bleeds+DR myself, and the unexpected slight new buff is nice, but again some of those heavy wind ups are oddly sluggish.
I think it only checks once per second for bleeding mobs within 8m; I wonder if that in-between split second comes into play a lot.

I put on Lynchpin+radius+tuff regen curios a while back and haven’t touched it since, but it would be nice to have smarter alternatives. Confident Strike is always in my mix so that’s a locked blessing right there.

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What about the situations that they do not decide to scatter to every corner of the map and they all engage you in melee? What if they form smaller groups behind the cover so that it would be more effective to use cleave instead of a single attack that nets you 25% toughness? Or the initial charge just bowls them all over and you can just pick them off from the ground?

The amount of time and killing power seems to be dependent on which weapon you are using. A Mk III cleaver with slaughterer will make short work on shooters and thus mitigate the damage you’ll take in the long run… since dead enemies cannot damage you. And the faster you kill the main group the less time the stragglers have to run away.

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I would like for them to rework both feat so smash’em good just require you to hit multiple ennemies with any type of attack and not just heavy and best for of defense would depend of blocks and push instead of mono target. So you could choose between offensive or defensive style instead of picking based on your weapon heavy

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29

I guess that if they did that change you’d have to divide the gains from light attacks and heavy attacks so you’d gain less from just using light, so that you’d have some situations where the heavy attack for extra gain might be the better choice.

I wonder how this new best form of defence would work in practice while performing a rescue. I’d say blocking lesser enemies to offset whatever ranged damage is coming your way with toughness gains would be good.

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For me personally, problem with heavy’s is that they slow you down too much, and I really want to move around when I engage a bunch of shooters and ranged elites to force as many as I can into melee as fast.

What I do is I am using light attacks first, and when I find a good spot heavies with " Smash 'Em Good!", works fine for the most part.
There is also the problem that heavy wind up is too slow as well, enough time for eretics to poke ya, not enough dodges to to avoid ranged fire and melee hits. Plus something is interrupting heavies some times, which is really shouldn’t happen with ogryn.

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I agree or based on the stagger/number of hit, mostly so the toughness regen stay similar between fast bullbutcher and slow heavy.

I admit I didn’t thought about the rescue situation. Good catch.

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This does not happen very often, but in this case, it does not matter which one of the three feat options you pick.

Sometimes you fight only trash enemies and have them all nice and tidy, as a big blob in melee range, that you can cleave down without getting shot or hit in any other way.
Great.
But outside of these situations, getting 25% on single heavy hit is pretty good.

You get to one of the small groups and still open with a heavy strike down (unless you are at full toughness).
Then you either clear the group at max speed, or you abuse the guys to restore some extra toughness via single target heavy attacks, to then absorb the shots that will hit you while you get to the next small group.

It does not matter if they are single targets, 2 guys or small groups.
You clear them in a way that leaves you with a healthy amount of toughness.
This can mean that you smash them with max dps, or that you use a few extra single target heavy attacks, killing them a bit slower but regenerating some extra toughness.

The feat allows you to adapt to any situation by changing your attack pattern based on your current level of toughness as well as the imminent danger of being hit.

I am using a mk 3 cleaver with T4 slaughterer and T4 confident strike. It kills enemies pretty well.

It does not really matter how fast you kill the initial group. The other enemies will run to their cover (or are already there) and shoot you if they can.

No matter which weapon you use (unless it is the shield), you will get shot by ranged units while closing the gap.

Regarding you repeatedly bringing up “what about xy situations”…
Feel free to bring up more examples, where you are in absolutely no danger and can just cleave down masses of trashmobs to maintain your toughness from kills.

I have made clear from the beginning that these are not the situations where the feat shines. The feat is great for the situations where you can not simply sustain your toughness with kills and Blessings.

Next, you are going to tell me, that cars and airplanes are generally useless, because you have a few examples of you wanting to go to a place that you can easily reach within a 2min walk.
This is not what they are made for. They are made for traveling to places that are inconveniently far away, or even impossible to access by foot.

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If I bring up situations that the feat are not needed in or there are other better or equally good options, and they outnumber the amount of situations where it does, then the gain from that one feat, a t1 feat, can be considered minimal, yet you went on about it as if it was the secret to survival for ogryns and claimed that who ever did not agree with you did not play damnation, was stubbergryning it or was not playing aggressively enough.

And really? the initial clear time of the shooter group has no impact on how to handle the stragglers left over?

34

Exactly.
You bring up situations where the feat does not matter.

I bring up situations where the feat does matter, and only one of the three options will do the job.

Anyway.
Let us end this here. It has bin going on for far too long already.

35

I’ve never seen a reason to take anything other than Lynchpin. Combine that with Towering Presence and toughness regeneration curios and it ends being one of our few good options.

36

Various Ogryn weapons and talents suck entirely because of target caps. Make heavies hit 5 targets minimum.

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37

Personally, I’m fine with current limit on number of damaged targets on Ogryn weapons. But I would like the weapons to have more distinct differences between themselves. For example, I would significantly increase the First Target modifier on shovel.

Heavy attack speed should be increased for all weapons except Brunt Special club and Krourk MK IV cleaver.

I like the idea to rework Blood and Thunder to apply bleeding to all targets, not only damaged ones. If desired, the player can take this feat and turn any weapon into crowd killing weapon.

1 Like
38

Frankly, I can’t understand the buffs on Ogryns feats…
The Ogryns have already best health, best toughness regen, good feats and do great damages (often top damages… and no that’s not only the Cleaver… please test other weapons).

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The biggest problems of most heavy attacks of the ogryn is that they are so clunky, their preparation takes forever. What they should do is to make the animation more fluid for sure.
Then at least increse the amount of damaged enemies so it can at least apply a little of bleed to it.
This way the bleed heavy build would actually be worth using.

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40

I think the primary problem is Damnation gameplay predominantly being dominated by Ranged Spawns, while you’re playing a class that is meant to get into the thick of it, you’re stuck in gun fights for most of the run, until a horde finally spawns.

  • What I think should be done is to combine these 2 level 5 feats. Replenish 25% Toughness For hitting an enemy with a Single Heavy Attack. Replenish 5% Toughness for each enemy hit when striking multiple targets with a Heavy Attack, up to 25%.

  • Then add a feat for killing ranged enemies in melee range at level 5. 6% Damage Resistance for each Ranged enemy killed with Melee. Stacks 5 times. Or something to that effect.

I don’t think this is that drastic of a change, but will actually be useful to allow for Ogryn players to actually play their role more thoroughly in Damnation without being suicidal or a liability to their team. If you’re more responsible and don’t like to charge into a bunch of gunners as Ogryn, the Melee Heavy build is there, otherwise this would probably work better.

It may require a little bit of tweaking on the bleed build to adjust for being too high in the damage resistance. And it would also require the player to have a good melee weapon with high Momentum or Confident Strike blessing in order to sustain toughness… Yes it is sufficient to run just one of those blessings. You don’t actually need either of the current Heavy Attack feats at level 5 in order to survive in melee on Damnation.

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