Bots are OP at dodge-dancing ogres

Issue summary:
Bots usually don’t take damage against ogres - in fact, they often dodgedance ogres so perfectly that it makes ogres trivial and boring to kill because the bots keep aggro while holding the ogre perfectly still.

This means bots are better at dodgedancing than 99% of all players.

I am not saying bots should die to ogres, but they should get slapped away WAY more often.

Steps to reproduce:

  1. Equip a bot with a mobile 1h weapon like 1h Axe
  2. Fight an ogre
  3. Be amazed how OP the bot is

Does it occur every time?
Almost every time, yes.

Is this a nerf demand for bots? Now this is something new. Bots still get wrecked if there is even one rat pestering them or they are cornered.
Wish they were equally good at avoiding chaos spawn grab tho.

  1. Observe the bot.
  2. Learn doing the same.

Very little reason for anyone to ever take a hit from Roger unless there’s trash mobs in the mix.

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‘‘If a bot can do it why can’t any of my teammates do anything but run away!?’’
For most groups ogre-dancing is chasing after it as it chases your ranged teammates xD

And I thought it’s Pyro and BH drinking concentration potion each and dancing and laughing around poor incapacitated ogre ratty.

:rofl: that’s what you’d expect but when lacking such a potion more often than not they’ll use it once and run a marathon till aggro swap, attest in my groups (legend)

I can’t see why the bots should be nerfed though, players can quite literally learn from them

Yes. They are garbage otherwise, but god-tier here. Makes no sense. They should be able to avoid ogre slams, but they should NOT be able to keep an ogre perfectly still.

I released a video about how to kite an ogre over a year ago, but thanks. I killed my first rat ogre in June 2016.

True but my point still stands.

When bots are better than 75% of the players on Legend, this is an issue - even if it’s only in one single thing.

FS handing out reds like candy has made legend almost unplayable in pubs. What a bunch of idiots running around. Can’t wait for QoL bots like in V1. Can stop facepalming myself when watching ”legend” players pulling every single ambient mob they can find including patrols no matter the situation.

I agree that the red drop rate is probably a bit too high at the moment, but at least this reduced the RNG.

It probably increased the amount of “I have good equipment, therefore I am good” players though, correct.

QoL bots in V1 felt like cheating imho. I hope the bot mod doesn’t get approved into the vanilla realm - that would make the bot mod mandatory for all players which is the opposite of Fatshark’s stance on mods.

Yeah, but atleast then I don’t have to play with players that are clearly not legend worthy or even champ wihout hard carry. Other option would be to get some kinda filter in match making. Like ”have completed all maps on legend” allows player to join etc. That way players could find other players with similar skill level or even beyond. Im not best player nor do I claim to be one. Just wanting to improve my gameplay and focus on that :upside_down_face:


One question: Why do you not want to play with players that require hard carry?

How do you improve in Vermintide? By clutching. By being thrown into situations that you haven’t experienced yet.

Do you think you can improve your skills by doing easy QoL bot 3/2 runs? Nope. You can’t. You won’t.


This video just popped up in the Verm subreddit.

Bots are too OP when it comes to fighting rat ogres.

They NEVER drop aggro. They never get launched away, they almost never get groundslammed.

This absolutely needs to change. Bots should be capable of holding their own, but they should NEVER be better than 90% of the playerbase, not even in a very specific aspect of the game.

Who do I ping here? @FatsharkRobin, you oversee the bot AI, right?

90% of the player base need to get better then. It’s not that hard.

The bots are worthless and you’d like to make them even more worthless.

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I’ve been playing in pre mades for so long that I forget most players don’t know how to do this. I jump down to a champion quick play and watch all 3 pubs get recked by an ogre. Unfortunately, the bots are not this good against Chaos spawns. It’s the one thing they excel at. And now that melee does a bit more damage, it’s more noticeable.

I thought it was champ first , just because of the dmg… but i remembered the melee buff. Pretty insane dmg input now.

Well the bots are fine in their current state - my opinion.
The legend playerbase is quite small and if you don’t want to play solo or wait about 30min every run, bots are needed. Dancing an ogre os 1 thing they can obviously perfect, but there are enough other situations , that forces you “the player” to help them.
FS have to find balance between that all and they did it in my eyes. They’re not broken , but more worth than the most vet/ champ and even legend players.
Legend is the endgame…

Btw the bots dont lose aggro, because they dont spam stagger-abilities on the boss. That’s the biggest mistake players do permanently.


I had a couple of bosses in the beta too. They feel a bit “useless” now, as long as no horde + specials appears. The dmg buff on the weapons is really strong.

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I like my bots to be temporary replacement for players, they should not be able to replace a player completely.

They should NEVER make a player feel obsolete.

Please watch this video and tell me that this was an intense boss fight. Such participation, wow.

Then why not buff them against Chaos Spawn and nerf them against Ogre? Bots are OP against ogres but a liability against spawns because they get grabbed all the time…

The result would have been no different with 3 competent players, but that video shows only one side of the coin.

Do it again but throw just 1 or 2 enemies into the mix with that boss. A few mauraders and a couple of elites should do the trick… Then see how much bots get absolutely minced into the ground because of terrible decision making.

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