This is not that and you know it…
A lie repeated many times doesn’t make it the truth.
You can also switch to a game with easy anti cheat if you cannot support that… or you can find players that think like you and team with them.
Choose your solution.
Oh the irony.
I know you’re not comfortable in English, but I’m positive you read the FS dev discord post when the other person whose opinions you suddenly share posted it. I bolded the bits for you. Let me know if you need me to translate it to French for you.
Kudos to you for doing the right thing here and asking the community to weigh in.
So the definitive answer is that no we won’t have a strong opinion on this mod. Whether you consider it cheating or not wall hacks and other implementations are readily available outside of mods and we don’t act on those either. Doing so would mean implementing anti cheat and we right now deem anti cheat implementations to be too limiting for the modding community and since darktide isnt a competitive game there are no real upsides to anti cheat.
Sure some might claim unfair advantage but really you are benefiting your whole crew so who cares really… And if you are playing Darktide for the bragging points you would still be at the mercy of the communitys opinion of the mod and not ours(Fatshark).
As for the intended behavior of this the analysis that we went back and forth on it and didn’t clean up properly is probably a fair one
I’ll report this straight to the source of the weird behavior and try to get it sorted.
Here’s another dev post your twin didn’t post.
- We concider hacks/cheats like these to mostly be ruining the person’s own experience of the game but if we find them reported for ruining other players experience of the game they are in clear violation of the modding rules (should we need additional reason for banning them) . Again the sanctity of your fellow players experience playing the game is paramount.
As mentioned this type of cheating has existed for quite a while, in fact way before modding for Darktide was officially a thing and they are on our radar.
We are also comfortable enough with the mod community’s good intention to not put any blame for things like this on modding in general (even if it was built using the DMF which the above clearly isn’t). We also believe in the modding communitys and Darktides player community to sort of police themselves around issues like this for the most part.
Not saying we will never intervene but we have seen no reason to yet. Our guidelines clearly states several lines that should not be crossed. (edited)
But please, do tell me how what I said in regard to FS’s very clearly (in English) stated policy is a lie?
I don’t really care about the macro itself, but this staff macro is just so noisy and it’s pretty annoying. It’s worse than spamming the ping button.
The actual justification for FS’s policy (as it has stood for over 1.5 years), in response to the creator of the tag-through-pox-gas mod asking for feedback:
So the definitive answer is that no we won’t have a strong opinion on this mod. Wether you consider it cheating or not wall hacks and other implementations are readily available outside of mods and we don’t act on those either. Doing so would mean implementing anti cheat and we right now deem anti cheat implementations to be too limiting for the modding community and since darktide isnt a competitive game there are no real upsides to anti cheat.
FS, like 1/3-1/2 of the PC community, value the ability to mod over the restrictions of anti-cheat. The community polices itself and suppresses mods they agree are beyond the pale (like the wall hack mod that got nuked from Nexus).
Just to bring it back around to an argument that’s a little fresher, below is my original quote in this thread on alt-f4’ing. You keep bandying alt-f4’ing about in this thread like some kind of gotcha, but let me 'splain…
The purpose of me saying this was two-fold:
I have a different cheese/cheat threshold than you do. I, like many others, don’t consider Spidey Sense cheating, but we’re been over that.
But more importantly, alt-F4’ing is literally the only thing I’ve personally seen in game that I consider a cheat (that I feel devalues my matches). I haven’t seen the crazy machine-gun psykers in my matches. I haven’t seen the wild first attack cancelling macro. I think I maybe remember the ogryn ammo-less exploit, so maybe that’s a gotcha there, but I really don’t remember. My point though is that cheating, even these instances of abusing mechanics with/without mods, just isn’t a widespread issue…and that takes us back around to FS’s justification for their stance on modding.
EDIT: To put as fine a point on it as possible, it’s not that “it doesn’t matter,” it’s that the alternative in FS’s view (anti-cheat) would be worse for players than the situation as it stands, where a few goobers here and there abuse mechanics or go shirtless or yell “vacuum capsule!”
I understand that english is surely your native language and that it is not mine.
I know that surely I can have difficulties with several english words
But, you have run out of arguments it seems if you attack me on this… with all what I have written in english here, and considering you succeeded to understand everything I have written, I suppose that you just try to throw attacks under the belt.
However, what you quote is the Fatshark policy. This is their game, and they can decide it.
As I said:
And yes, you said:
But you were enough honest to quote also the other post from devs. And in it, the first sentence clearly contradict your statement:
We concider hacks/cheats like these to mostly be ruining the person’s own experience of the game but if we find them reported for ruining other players experience of the game they are in clear violation of the modding rules
So I repeat “A lie repeated many times doesn’t make it the truth.”
A small correction: sometimes it’s permanent. Like my case of long sessions of mouse use. They can’t help me, only to ease the pain but I cannot use mouse at all now. Tablet for work, gamepad for gaming.
It’s genuinely not an attack, it’s me giving you the benefit of the doubt or looking for clarification because of your wording ambiguity. I’m seeking to understand where you’re coming from because you’ve contradicted yourself repeatedly, and purposely ignore the stated FS position, ~hidden in the modding discord.
I’m trying to differentiate between misinterpretation due to language, ignorance and dishonesty.
Yes, they DID decide, they made it quite clear in a couple of dev posts. “We wash our hands of it, PVE so who cares, you guys self-police”.
This is why I thought the language issue was confusing you, guess I was wrong.
Agreed. At some point repeated ignorance also becomes indistinguishable from a lie. The whole “see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil” excuse isn’t much of one.
ed: FS put the ball in the community’s court with some expectations, and some of you took that ball and threw it over the fence where the rabid dog is chomping on it.
Yes, Surge is very broken. Surge should not apply to primary attacks, only secondary attacks. 6 fully charged shots to 100% Peril is signficantly different compared to 25 shots to 100% Peril, that can take advantage of True Aim.
So you consider that:
We concider hacks/cheats like these to mostly be ruining the person’s own experience of the game but if we find them reported for ruining other players experience of the game they are in clear violation of the modding rules
Is the same of:
PVE so who cares really. We’re not getting involved, you guys figure it out
I am sorry, but your statement is not correct. They have never said so, and they have even stepped down several mods.
I will repeat then, and I have already said it to you.
I repeat that what you consider as cheat is purely subjectivity. I have said you that you are right to consider what cannot be done by an human as a cheat. I don’t deny it.
HOWEVER, what seems like something that ruins your fun, is not something that ruins mine. I said it also, what ruins my fun is players that can, with non balanced weapons and talents, do twice your damages when using a balanced weapon (example: PG in hands of skilled players, psyker using staff (I suspect soulblaze)).
So there is no contradiction in my statements. I consider that there is nothing wrong in considering such things as “cheat” that should be removed (yes, I am tolerant with opinions different than mine). But at same time, for me, this is not something important, so I am fine with their policy.
What would not be tolerable, for me, is that they let players using speed hacks, infinite ammos etc. What I really feel that they should correct is the alt + F4 to avoid the death (but still ALT+F4 when being stuck is perfectly fine). This is for me the biggest cheat that really annoys me. But I accept that it is not patched or fixed.
This is their game, they can dictate what they want as policy. But saying that they don’t care is blatantly dishonest.
And I add that I would be fine also if they change their policy. But if they remove us the possibility to play with mods, then here I would be upset and I think that I would stop playing.
Additionally, I can say that my concern is more how they enforce their policy. Cause it seems that nothing is really done against players using the few mods that are not allowed. And here I have a concern with that.
I even quoted, linked and bolded it for you. If you refuse to understand or acknowledge what FATSHARK said on the matter, that’s on you. This is why I thought there was a language issue at play, I was clearly mistaken, thanks for clarifying.
Dangling the threat of EAC over everyone’s head, which is seemingly why you chose to reverse course, is a cheap politician’s trick, one of many thrown here, which you fell for.
Some of you could have chosen to exercise your self-policing obligation/right (as stated by FS) as interested parties of the community and the game would be healthier and stronger for it.
But hey, do go on and tell OP and the other dude how these types of cheats aren’t really cheats, don’t affect them, don’t matter 'cause PvE etc.
P.S. Some of the replies, mostly in the other thread are quite frankly bordering on sociopathy; scary stuff.
i hope it get fixed/patched in some ways, because in the end it is a flaw of the game
they could do it like, if you are downed, and rejoin back, you will still be downed/lose a wound when you join back.
same also when being disabled, you will be still trapped/downed if rejoining back
(meanwhile if you ever get a crash, or issues because of the game, it will let you rejoin normally without downside so that it is fair for legit people rejoining, with some checks etc.)
meanwhile if you are alive and rejoin, it’s fine
(cause can actually be useful to rejoin, if you ever get stuck somewhere, because of mutants, boss grabbing you and putting you out of bounds spots etc)
What a laugh. It’s not a cheap trick, it’s literally the only mechanism FS could possibly use to gain more control over mods (and therefore whatever you, and any other individual, subjectively consider “cheat” mods), and avoiding EAC is the explicit reason that the policy as it is stands. You can ignore the full content of the quote, if you want, but FS is quite clearly balancing out what is best for the game and for players. And they, along with many many others, favor dealing with cheaters and trolls on a case-by-case basis rather than inhibiting mods with EAC, which is the only way they’ll really be able to enforce anything more strict than the current policy.
Again, the most salient part of the dev quote:
So the definitive answer is that no we won’t have a strong opinion on this mod. Wether you consider it cheating or not wall hacks and other implementations are readily available outside of mods and we don’t act on those either. Doing so would mean implementing anti cheat and we right now deem anti cheat implementations to be too limiting for the modding community and since darktide isnt a competitive game there are no real upsides to anti cheat.
Most of the mod-makers have exercised restraint and participated in acting against mods that have been stated to be against FS’s policies (shirtless, which is actively suppressed on the modding discord) or which are believed to be a bridge too far (wall hack, which was nuked from Nexus).
And everyone is free to make up their own minds about what is too cheesy to use. And if something is game-breakingly OP and widespread, more and more people will make a stink about it. Funny that knife zealots and plasma vets and smite psykers get more play than Spidey Sense users or quell-cancel macro users…hrm, wonder why! Maybe because one doesn’t affect anyone but the user and the other is used by so few people because most people realize it’s BS.
You can talk about sociopathy all you want, but this is much more relevant in my opinion…
Smacks of what’s going on in America to me, although we’re not going back to talking politics here. Just a real “my way or the highway” attitude you’ve got, believing everyone should be subjected to your very personal opinions about what is right and wrong.
Well, the imminent elections surely bring it to the forefront, but to be fair, being an overbearing-uncompromising-busybody douche canoe is hardly a trait exclusive to the US. Dickery knows no borders.
And incidentally, I may be an American, but that line is actually a paraphrased quote Sanguinius made in the Jaghatai Khan primarch novel.
Where did I say that?
Feel free to think that all users here are your enemies… but maybe then you should stop posting on a forum
My god… what is your proposition then? I still wait for your proposition
You perfectly know that Fatshark won’t handle mods… and it seems that what they did in VT2 was not satisfying (it seems they were, as always, slow)
Mods are local. Even mods that are forbidden can be used in the game actually (and I have said it that it is my main concern).
So, what is YOUR solution to enforce such restriction? Let’s say that we remove the mod of this thread. What is your solution to forbid any player that have it on his computer to use it in game?
Don’t say me changing the code, cause:
I’ve been lurking here for a bit and I noticed each time a topic like this pops up, there are notorious posters in here trying to silence the complaints and insisting that Fatshark is fine with it, period. Notably @Badwin and @Ralendil seem to be engaging in this rhetoric in all of these threads so this is aimed at you I suppose.
The actual Fatshark stance on it, as was quoted earlier, is:
We concider hacks/cheats like these to mostly be ruining the person’s own experience of the game but if we find them reported for ruining other players experience of the game they are in clear violation of the modding rules
Bolded part is mine for emphasis. In other words, these complaint threads ARE FATSHARKS FEEDBACK MECHANISM. They will see the complaints and then decide on their action or inaction. Attempting to dissuade people from posting these threads or voicing their issues with mods that they feel affects them negatively is trying to throw gears into the method Fatshark uses to determine which mods are problematic.
In other words, these threads are great and exactly the feedback Fatshark wants to see and needs to see. I’m not sure why you take it upon yourselves to try and stop that.
PS: I think my post got eaten and I rewrote it so if it ends up doubleposting, sorry in advance.
I don’t deny this point.
Everybody can post all posts they want…
What bothers me, is that a thread is opened every weeks (sometimes less) to say exactly the same thing.
However, posting just to attack others that disagree with you, is not something I really like.
It shouldn’t bother you at all. More feedback is good for Fatshark and helps them determine if they need to take action.
So I should spam the forum with threads “Fatshark please don’t refrain the mods use”? every weeks?
I don’t see why you can’t make one such thread just like how the OP of this topic made just one thread about the one mod that bothers him, and apparently one or two thread about previous mods before that. It seems those got autolocked due to many reports in the threads, which isn’t really OPs fault. He’s bringing a legitimate sentiment to discuss after Fatshark specifically asked the community to report if there are mods that affect their experience. Nobody is spamming.
it’s not really a mod this though, the one that the OP mentioned, it’s a config file to be put on an external software.
cancelling animation macros will always exist, and it’s not about mods, since you can do this with macros softwares. it’s something that FS, could and should try to fix on their end, by making these sort of spammable inputs not possible
