Multiple grenadiers, and/or flamers can be extremely oppressive, game-endingly so depending on a team’s composition and/or competence. Especially when part of mixed Auric hordes/special waves.
Some difficulty agnostic ways their threat could be mitigated:
Add “blue” water barrels tanks and pipes, these can immediately put out or reduce the radius of burning fire. They could maybe instead slowly reduce the fire radius over time until it’s put out.
Steam pipes/mains that do as above, but they can also damage, stagger/ragdoll players and enemies. They could also remain as a permanent hazard as a trade off.
Diff affecting means:
Allow smoke grenades to do as above. This would also be a way to buff them and make them indispensable for endgame play without having to give them dmg and keep them in a utility niche.
I don’t think the fire need to be cleanse that much, but I do like the idea of the smoke grenade having a cleanse effect to make it better. Maybe even with the possibility to clean the beast of nurgle slim.
I generally don’t mind how oppressive fire is since player toughness and damage reduction is really strong right now. Folks need to make fire specials a higher priority threat or push into / chase them down instead of letting themselves be corralled, even if that means taking some damage. Health is a resource to be spent.
With that said, I have 2 thoughts about interacting with fire.
I wouldn’t mind if the time before insta shield deletion was longer since it’s really easy to accidentally dip your toe into a patch of fire and for you to be shid outta luck before you realize it.
I’d be down for zealot fire to disallow any other fire from existing over it and vet’s smoke grenades smothering fires that are inside its effect (like you suggested!).
And here I thought it was about the entire team waiting in quiet contemplation after someone accidentally set off a red barrel at the end of a horde and the only way forward was blocked for 15 seconds.
But I do like the idea of certain Blitzes or Actives to remove damaging fires. Just to add that potential to a players toolkit.
yknow i love that idea with the smoke grenades. water barrels and steam pipes sound like a TON of work to impelement but no i adore the smoke grenade idea cause the smokes are kinda useless compared to the krak grenade and due to vets horizontal links you never ever need to take the smokes to reach any other talent, the way you do with the other trees.
Definitely with you on that smoke grenades. It’s an amazing interaction and would boost it’s usefulness massively. Not just to the Vet, but the team overall.
ive hv encounter like 6 scab flamer all attacking me at the same time. it feels like there is no counterplay to that situation and the game wanted u dead.
I have more issues with this than fire honestly, especially if I am running a melee focused character. Hate the guaranteed corruption damage if you want to engage.
I have done both. Not gone in friendly fire, to my detriment, and trying to train myself, THINK it’s friendly fire and wreck myself up on learning it was a bombardiers incendiary.
Flamers and bombers are required to prohibit players from turtling in a corner and waiting for everything to blow over.
They force you to move and make things fun. The hard counter to them is literally their audio cue. They’ve got one of the loudest with the longest windup to the actual attack. The moment you hear it you check your surroundings and get some space to either snipe or rush them.
If you’re surrounded by a horde and blocked into a corner you deserve to die in that instance because you lost the positioning game.
That’s a really good out-of-the-box idea. I can get behind this. Bombers and/or Flamers won’t be able to completely cut off access to your teammates and/or objectives as oppressively. A teensy bit of environmental co-ordination and teams could find a decent counter to a Bomber and/or Flamer without necessarily chasing them down and killing them.
Bombers and Flamers can also ENCOURAGE turtling. I often find myself backed into corners with Bombers and hiding behind cover with Flamers (which I can do because all of my characters are shortstacks)
The number of times that I’ve walked into an enemy Bomber’s grenade, simply because there’s a Zealot on the team with a missing grenade, is embarrassing.
I would Encourage the opposite. Bombers require 1 out of 4 to pop before throw.
Flamers require pure annihilation through aggressive determination.
If you are having trouble with what to do think of the specialist as the midpoint of a circle. Rotate around him until you get a shot. Most things in the tide series revolve around this idea.
Then you’re essentially doing it wrong and deserve to get punished. You prioritize bombers and don’t let them throw. If they do anyway you change position to do so.
For flamers it is just like above:
Please don’t whine about the few sensible and working as intended mechanics in tide games because of ye old skill issue
Skill issue? I’m merely stating that turtling in some circumstances is your only option until you get a better shot. You’re just trying to invalidate my claim by making it sound like I’m “playing the game wrong”, when this is a game which supports playing it virtually however you like, that’s why there’s a skill tree instead of a set class for each archetype. I use my character’s short height to sneak around cover and find, as aforementioned, a better shot. I’m sorry that I don’t want to run directly at a Flamer while he’s spraying a massive cloud of flames at me. It’s better to just hide in cover for a few seconds until he stops using his Flamer and then rush him while he’s vulnerable. Bombers? Sometimes they throw a grenade into a position where your only hope is to hide in the corner because it’s the only area in the room that isn’t going to be soaked in flames. Bombers are usually a quick fix but sometimes I’ve had Veterans twiddle their thumbs and put their Lasgun to waste while a Bomber is in clear view, and in those cases I usually have to make the kill with a throwing knife. Having a Smoke Grenade put out a Bomber Grenade or maybe even stun the Flamer will make it seldom useful compared to now. Seriously, between a Krak, Frag and a Smoke Grenade, which one is least useful in all situations? Any situation now that can be solved with a Smoke Grenade can be solved quicker and more efficiently with the latter two Grenades. It promotes a new (not broken) playstyle, which is always a good thing.