A way to differentiate the Moebian sixth from the Admonition - behavior

TL;DR version is in the comments below.

As a way to reduce enemy spam, FatShark is making an effort to differentiate the Moebian Sixth from the Admonition. They want the Scabs to fit the theme of an elite regiment who doesn’t need high numbers to be a challenge to the players compared to the less professional Dregs who are supposed to be strong in higher numbers.

I have been thinking, aside from increase in health, what else could be done to make the Sixth feel more experienced and skilled in warfare? After giving the matter careful thought, I think I found a way.

FatShark can implement a change to the behavior of the Scabs.

It’s not really anything huge. Let me elaborate:

The Moebian Sixth is a regiment, which means that a lot of their soldiers are definitely equipped with some form of radio that could allow them to quickly communicate to every troop that they have just spotted a loyalist within a specific sector.

That means that the moment we are spotted by the Scab enemies, all the Sixth that spawns into the map later down the line should already be aware of us and be ready for an engagement.

Shooters and Gunners

These troops can take cover when fighting us. Going with the behavior of already knowing that we are coming, upon spawning they could immediately take defensive positions by going into cover, before we, as players, even see them. So when we do come into contact with them, from our perspective, they are already in cover. And since they know that we were going to show up sooner or later, I think that significantly shortening their reaction time (as in, the time it takes them to start shooting the moment we walk into their sights) would be appropriate. It could even be made so that their reaction is quicker, the higher the difficulty is. To add to the role of soldiers further, I believe that Shooters and Gunners should have an increased resistance to suppression, given their militaristic backround. Most of them seen war and had bullets flying over their heads on Nox Alpha, so suppression shouldn’t be as effective on them as it should be on the Dregs.

Stalkers, Shotgunners, Plasma Gunners

These enemies are supposed to fill the role of shocktroopers. They are immune to suppression and do not take cover as the regular Shooters and Gunners do. I think the way to have them appear as if they are ready for us, is to have these enemies appear in patrols.

What I see as patrols in the game are groups of enemies, wandering from one spot to another, that vary in numbers. There can be small patrols that consist of only two chaff ranged units (Shooter/Stalker) and one chaff melee unit (Bruiser). There can be medium patrols consisting of a couple of chaff ranged/melee units and one or more Elite ranged units (Shotgunner/Gunner) or melee units (Ragers/Maulers). And of course there can be boss patrols. They can have things like 8 Crushers/Bulwarks/Reapers or 8-16 Elite ranged or melee units.

The reason as to why I suggest making these Scab units only appear in patrols is because it makes sense for them to scout the area they were ordered to guard. A single Scab Stalker shouldn’t just stand around aimlessly. Instead, he would have been grouped up with the rest of the squad and told to go patrol the place they are guarding, because they have just received a report of Loyalists sightings a couple of sectors away. Because of this, I think that, once again, shortening the reaction time of these enemies would be adequate.

Bruisers, Maulers, Ragers

These are our maniacs. Crazy lunatics who would throw themselves into the line of fire for the Sixth. But I think that even the crazy melee, Nurgle-worshiping lunatics would still hold some kind of order within their ranks. That is why, once again, making those units only spawn in patrols would help to differentiate them from the unorganized cultists of the Admonition. Also yes, I would, once again, suggest shortening their reaction time, since they’ve already been told that Loyalists are on their way, so it would make sense that they are already on edge and would react very quickly upon seeing people dressed in armor with markings of the Imperium that they so much despise.

The new differences between the Moebian Sixth and the Admonition

In conclusion, I think that, aside from the heath buffs, changing the way the Moebian Sixth behave, and making them much more responsive to seeing us, would really help in differentiating them from the Cultists of the Admonition. With such changes, the Dregs would come across as much less professional. They would appear less in patrols and in more disorganized groups, standing around and taking longer to attack us, since they have no idea that we’re coming. Also, their ranged units would be much more vulnerable to things like suppression, which makes sense because the Dregs are no soldiers. No matter how much blessing they received from Nurgle, human instincts still remain. Without military training and experience of warfare, once the first bullets fly, a regular cultist shooter will flinch and react much more to the incoming fire compared to the seasoned trooper of the Sixth.

End

So what did you guys think? What do you think of these suggestions? Would these suggestions fit the Scabs, and would they really help the players differentiating them from the Dregs? How would that work out gameplay wise? Would it impact the gameplay experience significantly?

2 Likes

Suggested Behavioral Changes for the Moebian Sixth

Core Idea

  • Proposal: Modify the AI behavior of the Moebian Sixth to reflect their disciplined, military nature.

  • Goal: Differentiate them from the disorganized, Admonition through tactical readiness and cohesion.


General Concept

  • The Moebian Sixth Regiment should act as trained soldiers with radios and coordinated awareness.

  • Once players are detected, all future Scab spawns should already know of the player’s presence and prepare for combat accordingly.


Enemy Type Adjustments

1. Shooters and Gunners

  • Behavior Changes:

    • Spawn already in cover, anticipating player arrival.

    • Reduced reaction time to engage players.

    • Reaction speed scales with difficulty level.

    • Increased resistance to suppression due to combat experience.


2. Stalkers, Shotgunners, Plasma Gunners

  • Role: Shocktroopers; immune to suppression and rarely take cover.

  • Behavior Changes:

    • Should spawn only in patrols (small, medium, or large formations).

    • Patrols simulate active scouting and readiness for battle.

    • Shortened reaction times to reflect alertness and preparedness.

    • Reaction speed scales with difficulty level.


3. Bruisers, Maulers, Ragers

  • Role: Frenzied melee fighters with some retained discipline.

  • Behavior Changes:

    • Also spawn exclusively in patrols, maintaining order despite aggression.

    • Quick reaction times to reflect heightened anticipation of loyalist forces.

    • Reaction speed scales with difficulty level.


Differentiation from the Dregs

  • Moebian Sixth:

    • Organized patrols, fast reactions, high discipline, reduced suppression response.
  • Admonition:

    • Disorganized, scattered groups, slower reactions, easily suppressed.

    • Portrayed as untrained cultists reacting instinctively to combat.


Conclusion

Implementing these behavior changes would:

  • Emphasize the professionalism and coordination of the Moebian Sixth.

  • Create clear gameplay and thematic contrast between disciplined soldiers and chaotic cultists.

Tagging @FatsharkQuickpaw for a chance he reads it.

3 Likes

I like these ideas

I’d also like to see Scab enemies but in their Admonition variation

Dreg Maulers, Unarmored/Infested Ogryns (non Plague Ogryn), to help against the over reliance on Rending/Brittleness, and instead these enemies would just have more hp than their Scab counterpart

I’d like Admonition to have support Psykers, kinda like Encroaching Garden mutator or any other enemy buff related benefit, but as a supportive specialist unit, or make Rituals a thing that could happen in Admonition only missions

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I definitely want more distinct factions and a reduction in enemy spam.

I think part of this does consist of giving Admonition ‘equivalent’ units, telling players what to expect in a given mission (modifiers for more scabs/dregs) so they know what to build for and don’t have to run a generalist ‘kill everything’ setup, and weapons focusing more on a narrow range of armor types.

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I believe that FS could make a different unit that is not just a Dreg Mauler. Not everything has to be a reskin of an already existing enemy, yes? Maybe we could get an elite with some form of shield? To me, it would make sense, since the Dregs use whatever they can get their hands on. And there’s definitely plenty of random metal lying around in the lower sections of the Hive, that could be used as a makeshift shield. This could also be followed by adding dreg chaff enemies with breakable shields. All shields would negate cleave and wouldn’t allow players to just grind the hordes down with a couple of melee swings. It could nicely shake up the gameplay of DT, just like it did in VT2.

And about Ogryns that belong to the Admonition, I agree because I wish for more Ogryn types to fight with. An Ogryn juiced up with Nurgle’s blessings would be a terrifying, new addition to the Admonition’s ranks. But also because the thought of fighting what is essentially a Bestigor from VT2 feels like an awesome idea (once the enemy spam is reduced so we don’t have to face 6 of these at once, of course)

Also, I never heard or saw anyone mention this, but why is there so much heretic Ogryns on Atoma? It feels similar to our playable Ogryns in a sense. They are not something bizarre or out of place. They are just… there. It’s a bit funny, considering that if we were to see those enormous piles of flesh and muscle irl, we would be intimidated beyond belief. And yet our rejects just give a callout and rush the Crusher/Bulwark/Reaper like it’s nothing. I guess this is why I always call for buffs to the Ogryns in favor of reducing their spawn rates. All to make them more unique in a mini boss kind of way.

I know this has nothing to do with the topic, but I just had to go off on that tangent and get this off my chest xD

People who played VT2 and fought the standard-bearers would shudder upon the mere thought of fighting these kinds of enemies xD

I agree. The weapons like the Heavy Sword actually works great on the Dregs, and it does the job with the Scabs. Only when Ogryns come into the picture does the weapon start to struggle.

It can be buffed, but I think the truly effective way to have players create more unique playstyles is to focus on nerfing the “kill everything” weapons. Nerf the Dueling Sword, nerf the Plasma Gun, nerf the Purgatus staff, nerf the Rumbler, slightly buff things like the Heavy Sword, Devil’s claw, Ranged Bullet weapons (in a way that makes them distinct from laser weapons) and communicate to the players what kind of enemies will they face in the mission.

After all it does make sense that the Mourningstar should have reports made by Wyrmwood agents what enemies roam what mission area. We already have that with some modifiers.

Yeah but banners also give them resistance and that was the issue with them xdd

Yes and no to the unarmoured ogrins, yes they should be a thing, no they shouldn’t have more health. They should be more aggressive and faster instead as is the case with ragers instead of just having a different variation of armour.

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If I remember correctly, all Scab enemies have less HP than their Dreg counterparts

Gunners, shotgunners and ragers do at least

And they finally started to change that inconsistency which was btw quite satisfying

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Yes, and they will continue to expand on it, since we know that they want Scab to spawn less “to ensure that the Moebians feel like the Elite regiment they are versus more numerous but worse equipped Admonition cultists”.

I hope it will all work out in the end, no matter what they do to reduce enemy spam.

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