Your main argument revolved around the bugs during last stand, even with this change you’d still have to get really lucky there are no other spawns coming at you in solo no less. It would be more desired to prioritize the root of the problem over something temporary on top of only being helpful if you are lucky. Albeit a low priority in contrast with other more impactful problems.
I completely disagree with being able to free yourself from any disabler or being able to pull yourself up from a ledge. Even as a temporary bandaid solution.
The problem isn’t that we can’t free ourselves, the problem is that the disablers are janky at best or completely f*cked at worst.
They should not be able to lose their sound cues or pass through geometry or shoot through an infinite number of every single enemy type. That’s what needs to be fixed.
Remove the dog from the game and don’t bring it back until it is fixed and working properly. Muties can now turn on a dime again and that sh!t is also not ok.
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Well, that is what i said myself.
But what is to be done until they are fixed?
Completely removing them seems like a worse solution to me.
A broken enemy that can end runs all by themselves should not exist. The dog in it’s current state does not add anything to the game and should therefore be taken out and finally, properly fixed before they are let loose again.
How many times did FS claim that the dogs are now working as intended only for them to still be as broken as they were since release? I can recall at least 4 times that I’ve read that claim in the patchnotes and it then taking no longer than 5min of playing to find out that they just straight up lied about it.
There was exactly 1 week in which they were fine. Clearly it’s not too much to ask for the enemies to behave properly so why settle for something that breaks more than it fixes?
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Except it would facilitate solo play and people running off from the team.
Disablers are a core part of the identity of this game. Vt2 had them. Vt1 too.
Of course inspired by left4dead.
As for the demon host, i think some changes could make it a more fun thing in missions.
Make it more like the witch in left4dead. Make it more lethal but also more fragile.
I have to disagree with these pieces of feedback.
disablers are required to make sure that people actually stick together and don’t run off on their own. I don’t think that’s negotiable - being able to get them off you is directly going against the teamwork nature of the game and people are not going to stick together as much as they do now at higher difficulties (once they learn).
I DO wish the dogs were fixed like they were a couple patches ago. The fact that they’ve regressed back to being jank, and not re-fixed, is very frustrating.
I like that the game can get hard enough to the point where you can go in there and it’s a legit fight to win. I like that it’s mostly skill based and not gear based. Being able to close that gap with gear I disagree with. This is the equivalent of saying Darksouls is too hard, the items need to be buffed. No, the point of the game is that it’s difficult, and you need to use your knowledge, decision making, and technical execution good enough to win. Then those wins are so much sweeter than not. All of the tide games have shined when the fight for survival is a genuine fight, and I consider it a key feature.
Demon host at this point I consider more of a nuisance than anything else - it’s intended to be a stage hazard which forces players to explore a different path. Which is cool but after all this time I wish there was something more to it. I don’t want there to be an incentive to fight it because then people are going to intentionally pull without asking more, but I think it could be interesting if there were variations. Like one that patrols, but is easier to fight, etc.
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One thing I find very odd about the Poxhounds is that with my Psyker and my Veteran, I usually have trouble successfully dodging and pushing them. I usually take care of the Poxhounds with these two characters by running behind a crate or doorway to confuse their AI.
With my Ogryn on the other hand, I almost always manage to push the Hounds or stop their pounce with a light melee attack.
This is so strange to me.
I have never been a fan of the hounds, and I’d prefer them to either be a QTE like the Prowlers in Aliens: Fireteam Elite (for those who played it) or simply removed and replaced with a more interesting enemy type.
I dunno I’ve seen like 300 modded game overs to assassins, because they ignore hit mass and can fly through a mob of enemies where your only counter is to have a shout ult available when you see it emerge from a chaos warrior’s chest like Alien. They are so much worse designed to me.
Dogs meanwhile I have no issues with, besides pox puppies having the same too long get up frames. That can really cut the fun of the game out, when people die in get up frames. But the pox puppy event is still bad, so its not really unique to dogs. Its unique to forcing very long animation frames in a game like this.
I guess I have to admit that that is a fair point, but something has got to be done because all they are is a great way to make the players mad. At the very least if I kill that thing cause some dude woke it up the feeling you get for killing one should not be frustration bare minimum it should feel like an accomplishment. All it does is infuriate me win or lose the fight. Thats a bad idea, games are supposed to be fun not frustrating. Even if they don’t increase the reward value for killing them there needs to be a shakeup. Not to mention the added frustration of having your whole team mad at you for not seeing it because it was at the top of the stairs, and you couldn’t see it at the top of the stairs and couldn’t hear it cause the gunfire and chaos is too loud. It’s not a fun feeling chewed out in the chat for an accident when you’re trying to have fun. That happened to me as just two days ago. Something I should add though is that as long as you don’t make any huge mistakes (Like waking a Deamon host) The community has been very friendly. I’ve really only met two people that seemed like jerks. Something I wasn’t expecting in a shooter was a kind community XD
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I was talking about the pox hounds and agreeing with you that they have too much HP. In fact nerfing their HP might be the best way to balance them if you’re not going to give a resist option of any. When they can be as fast as they are and pounce as fast as they do come in swarms from up to 3 on default and eat a whole mage from a full auto autogun? If it takes a whole mag to kill one how am I supposed to off that thing fast enough to have a chance? Even my autogun only shoots so fast and my mag can only hold so many bullets you know? Now imagine seeing 3 pox hounds charging you and you know you’re going to have to spend your whole mag to kill one and re load while the other two close the distance. (Often before you have a chance finish firing the clip. Though to be fair I have had good results against pox hounds with revolvers but that’s a different can of worms.
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It should be noted that positioning can make dogs a lot less frustrating to deal with
- As others have mentioned, sticking with the team is an obvious one,since melee weapons can remove them quickly
- Put obstacles between you on the dog. Interrupting it mid jump is still a bit hit-and-miss (and hopefully we’ll see improvements to that), but you force it to navigate a corner, it typically has to shuffle and spin around before it leaps. If it turns the corner and you’re ready and waiting to cave it’s skull in… RIP doggo
- Stagger-heavy ranged weapons, like a Flamer’s primary fire, Stubbers, shotguns to an extent (effective range near/far comes into play here) will knock them on their ass fairly effectively
It doesn’t fix the jank but until such a change is implemented, may as well try and make it less painful on yourself
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You make a point about the team cohesion pox hounds add. That’s a way I hadn’t looked at it yet. It’s definitely food for thought given it’s a team-oriented shooter. That said it’s still incredibly frustrating. I mean I don’t mind the mutants too much because after a few bashes they throw you and then you can play again but waiting for a pox hound to kill you is so immersion breaking. I just lean back in my chair, sigh and take a sip of coffee with my thumb up my butt how is that fun in any regard. I mean at least with the trapper it makes sense because net but I find the idea of an Ogrin being unable to get a pox hound off him kind of dumb the Ogrin is twice the hound’s size! I’m not a game designer just a player so yea what I have to say should be taken with a grain of salt but you’re telling me an Oger would lose a fight to a Great Dane? I guess with the shooter, pysker and zealot. It would be nice though if they would at least let you shove him off once he halves your health, so you get one more shot at killing him and then if you let them pounce on you again the finish the job. That actually sounds pretty balanced to me. First attack, half your health, second attack guarantied death. That gives the player a bit of a chance, punishes them for straying but still gives the player an honest shot. Note that when I say half health, I mean that in the sense of If you have 20, no it’s 10 if you have 10 now it’s 5. Scale it to their current health not max. Now the players not completely helpless but he’s still in grave danger. That would preserve the suspense and remind you at the same time “Oh yea that’s why you don’t split the party.” That sounds pretty fair to me but if you have other thoughts, I’m checking this post off and on and I’m enjoying talking with the community.
Those strats help but sometimes 2 and 3 aren’t always an option cause you’re in an area with no cover and you’re running a veteran sharpshooter some of the weapons you’ve mentioned like the flamer are off limits. You make a good point about dodge. I think it’s underpowered and the player needs to be a bit nimbler. I’ve died more than once thinking I could clear those crates only to find out you can’t jump them cause they’re a few pixels to tall and then you get killed by the hoard trapped against the cover you were trying to jump. I wouldn’t mind if it was more consistent but right now all you can do is eyeball what you’re trying to jump and go “I hope I can clear that and don’t just pin myself against the crates.” There are so many different models of cover I can’t remember where every single jumpable and unjumpable crate is lol.
I made a good point about dodge? Gonna have to re-read my post now, I don’t even remember mentioning dodge 
Re: cover and what can/can’t be mantled. I just aim for the stuff that is a very clear obstruction to enemy pathing (since dogs can leap over low cover afaik) . A large pillar, walls/corners, stairwells with guard railings, usable doors - of course, like you said, that’s not always available but it eliminates the question of “Can I get over it”
Eh, I honestly wouldn’t change the dogs other than making them less janky. But I see a lot of comments in here saying they are nearly undodgeable and can’t be stopped and take too many hits, and that simply isn’t my experience with them even on damnation. There are lots of weapons that can one shot them to the head, team mates are usually quick to knock a dog off, and I simply don’t have trouble dodging them. There are obviously going to be discrepancies between people due to hit registration issues and the weapons they choose to run and latency problems. But to me, the dogs really aren’t as much of a threat as people are making them out to be, and are rarely the enemy type that stops me in a solo clutch situation. I’m FAR more likely to die to a mutant tossing me into a flamer or a squad of shooters with a deep set sniper than from a pox hound.
I think it comes down to a feeling of fairness. As far as disablers go, I find trappers and mutants more threatening (trappers have range, and both will displace the victim), but I still encounter the occasional situation where what appears on my screen as a successful push/dodge but the dog still pins me (I’ve had one such situation where the dog even recoiled from my push but I still got pinned). It may have been a lag spike, who knows, but given the rest of the game before/after was lag-free, and given that plenty of people still perceive issues with dogs then… it’s hard to say there isn’t something funky going on
see for me it’s the reverse I view mutants as more of a nuisance than anything but the pox hounds drive me crazy sometimes.
Sounds like a hit reg issue there, animations, staggers, and blood can all trigger independently of each other leading to some weird issues when coupled with even a small amount of lag. I think a lot of the issues with dogs and disablers in general will be fixed if they simply can get the hit reg bugs ironed out. Because they will immediately feel more fair and rewarding when you’re playing well. But you won’t get any arguments out of me regarding the jankyness of the dogs in particular. There are some things like their ability to turn while leaping or get launched airborne and fall on you to pin you that desperately need to be fixed
Which plays into that “unfair” thing. I don’t know the specifics of what animations the game client will/won’t predict; I know blood splatters without a hit are a thing, but that predicted animation doesn’t change gameplay. A discrepancy between the visual state and the game state for something like stagger is… kinda awful. Imagine if you appeared to staggered a crusher mid-attack and then suddenly got KOed by them because they weren’t actually staggered. Or a dog you shoved still pounces you, to stay on topic
I’m aware of hitreg issues where a good shot behaves as though it were a miss, but when the game displays the side effects of a change in the game state without applying the behaviour of the state change… that’s fishy.
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Happens for me lot of time…
More with the mutants