A change idea to the relic sword and maybe force greatsword

idk about anyone else but something feels lacking for giant european style greatswords like this… personally i kinda wish that for at least the relic sword and force greatsword and maybe even for the normal size power and force swords, that their block START with the catachan parry or maybe ONLY be a catachan style parry which would grant those who learn to use it far more strength but also require you to be a lot more accurate with your blocks. personally i have been playing with the catachan devils claw A LOT and i LOVE the parry mechanic cause it gives zealot something zealot DESPRATLY needed in my opinion which is to say, the ability to handle other melee enemies through putting in some extra effort and skill in a way that lets you dominate if you play really well.

again i feel that the relic sword and force great sword NEED this because they lack so much mobility that honestly, if you CANT kill the horde before the get a chance to swing, your GOING to be hit a lot and it just feels bad on many levels and i feel this change would fit with the way greatswords are used irl AND in a way that makes gameplay as well just far more fun and enjoyable.

I’d love more mechanics like parry, but the DClaws pay a heavy price for that being as otherwise weak as they are (not necessarily, but they do depend on extreme finesse / atk spd buffs to even compete with many others). Also I’m no expert on real combat but somehow parrying as a thing sounds like something that needs a mobile, flexible weapon. The biggest, slowest slabs of steel feel to me like the worst possible matchup for that.

I’ll also take this opportunity to finally say something I’ve been thinking for a while: The Force Greatswords (especially VIII) need nerfs and badly. I love that thing to bits and have played little else since they were released, but jfc.

If you but know your movetech, the FGS becomes the best cleaver, best single-target, best anti-armor, and it has all those fantastic Force Sword perks like the CC & utility on top. Then there’s that on-demand-nuke of a special too, something no other psyker tool of any kind can do. Only Duelling Swords still top the single-target & armor, but everyone knows they’re broken OP so that hardly matters.

Ofc this is DT, it’s never this simple and there are always exceptions, but still. I honestly think at least VIII with its already sublime moveset needs to be toned down, at least reduced attack speed and/or light-attack dmg. For that matter I think the DClaw base dmg should be hitched up a bit too. :smile:

Edit: Oh oh one thing I meant to add in similar vein to OP tho! I do think it would be wonderful if Darktide had a mechanic similar to Dark Souls where the mass of objects matters for attackers too. Basically, blocking an attack with a particularly heavy weapon or shield should stagger enemies depending on how strong & massive they were, or at least add a delay to their next attack. Likewise blocking with very light weapons like knives should put much more strain on the defender, and less on the attacker. And vice versa, players hitting bulwark shields with knives & dainty Duelling Swords should be prepared for a staggering backblow.

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The zealot one was balanced with zealot talents in mind I think, and as such, is far inferior to the psyker one.

It’s kinda dogshit is what it is, in desperate need of martyrdom to do dmg without crit blessings. The ones psyker gets BOTH to use :slight_smile:

tbh elodie i feel that and personally i think it just the devil claw moveset for me feels REALLY f*cking solid with actually more than cracked enough damage that especially with its parry, it kinda blows the FGS outta the water at least when I try to use either. honestly if you ask me, honestly i feel that i do at least agree that i kinda at this point wish that the parry mechanic was just A PART of the game that if you perfect time a block, it parries instead but just have specific weapons like the devil claw be the only ones who get to have a free attack off of the parry. beyond that, i guess i would say that damage isnt everything in my experience and its more important to meet the survivability threshold and find the tools that work best for you that let you no damage normal damnation and only add damage on top at the end as an extra bonus with i even saw a video a while ago that mentioned that for A LOT of weapons, damage actually is a dumb stat due to the fact that many weapons can usually at most get a like, 2 or 3% bonus damage for going from 60% damage to 80% and hoenstly that really just is the truth that i dont think a weapon is broken just due to its damage with the reason i dislike the FGS is it has no defense stat and has some of the worst mobility in game which renders trying to survive bad situations with it kinda difficult.

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summed up more sucinctly than my word wall:

-i think that the game should have a parry mechanic for all weapons but only certain weapons that are more defensive in nature like the shovels or the slab shields should get the ability to actually attack off a parry as well as the dueling swords though they already need a severe nerf to their horde clear skills and have them focus on just being anti armor single target weapons.

-weapons arent OP or weak based purely on damage output as the strength of a weapons mobility or its defensive ability or especially with melee weapons, their attack patterns and ease of use in a panic for combos really is the make or break for weapons and so even if a weapon could one shot any ONE TARGET at a time, even if you could attack even 2 or 3 times a second, it would be utter trash for anything other than single target and when not paired with a weapon that can pull horde clear for it, you may as well not use it.

It’s been stated in here already, but the Force Greatsword is arguably one of if not the best melee weapon currently in the game atm.

It’s really snappy and quick, incredibly long range, has a ‘horde wiping’ charge up move (based off kills with the weapon but still), and it’s push attack is literally the best in the business, knocking over everything in a cone and even being capable in pushing over Crushers/knocking back bulwark shields if those are the first things hit by it’s stagger. It gives a massive amount of stamina so you can push all day every day, allowing 2-3 pushes to easily manage and entire wave and allow you free spacing whenever you need it, on top of dealing with armor to a pretty good degree (taking 2-4 heavy hits to drop a crusher depending on what attacks you go about using).

I think a parry, especially on a force weapon where you just throw up a wall of Psychic energy, isn’t entirely needed (as cool as it would be), especially on a weapon so already capable and fantastic.

But, I could see it being added to the Relic Blade for sure. It’s very ‘undertuned’ by comparison and pretty bad compared to the rest of the Zealot’s kit. And with how long it’s block animation seems to take (despite it blocking the whole time, as per another discussion about said sword), it would be cool if during those ‘start up’ frames where the sword is in the air, it will parry any attack for no stamina cost (per the Elodie idea that a large weapon like that can just ‘knock away’ most hits), before settling into a blocking stance that leads to the hits effecting your stamina instead. Would lend a lot more to it’s ‘sprint in and attack’ playstyle they tried to employ, while making the slow block animation feel a lot more warranted.

As I do love the Devil Sword I a LOT in how it functions, and try and make a good number of builds that use it due to that parry feeling incredibly good now. But it says a lot that in order for it to be good, they needed to add the fact that it blocks after the parry happened, as the amount of times (especially ragers) where in the parry would result in you dying because it wasn’t blocking before was insane, and made the weapon feel terrible. It functioning with a block is entirely required, and I feel is ‘novel’ with an otherwise underpowered weapon as it makes it not fit into every build, but the builds it does fit into feel fantastic. (I know for my Psyker, it tends to fit the best with my Assail Builds that already manage the wave pretty well with said Assail and then deal with Carapace/Unyeilding with Voidstrike crits, so having a weapon that just ‘manages the melee game’ and keeps me from falling over is really nice. But most builds with Brain Burst/Smite for instance almost always use Force Greatsword now, for they need the wave management potential and the ability to ‘shove things away’ for further distance).

I feel they have been experimenting with Perfect Block stuff a decent amount as of recently with their blessings, so if they added one that was essentially ‘you take no damage/stamina damage from a perfect block’, I could see that being novel. The Devil sword continues to have it for free, but the rest of the weapons would need to ‘spec into it’, and sacrifice something. I feel that would make sense, but I wouldn’t say no to them just adding that mechanic in to blocks as well. It just likely wouldn’t do as much as one would think, given the amount of multi attacks that happen at close proximity and implementing it without a ‘follow up’ would just make one of the many strikes not hit your block, verses that happening for a few attacks then wiping the enemies in front of you.

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