I’ve been pretty hard sold on the agri braced auto for zealot for quite some time now, but have been considering making a move to the agri shotgun specifically so I can do more damage to bosses and make bulwarks a lot easier to deal with. It lacks comparatively with dealing with hordes and mixed elites, and shooters somewhat, but it is super nice to just blast a couple incendiaries on a pack of bulkwarks and watch them all burn out in unison.
Considering the cleave and stagger and my experience with the shotgun i have no problem serially loading shells and cutting through large numbers of walkers before they get to me. So it seems viable enough.
Dunno the breakpoints on the autopistol but i have a meta build one that is very fun to use. It certainly slaughters hordes quite well but i don’t find it useful against shooter groups unless i’m pretty close. Its niche is very similar to the flamer and for my use case i needed something medium ranged that could still dump on hordes if needed. Because the hammer is a joke at horde clear.
I want the Ammo Stat to be replaced with anything.
They could do penetration, first target, cleave, quell speed, whatever. Just normalize ammo (max 100% on all of them looks closer to normal than anything at 80% or below)
I actually like the shotguns, but i think Lawbringer, for sure, needs 100+ ammo. Agri, maybe near or below 100, people keep saying it’s weak but the videos I’ve seen make it look amazing on weakspot hit. Kantrael is strong and the special attack is a good DoT, I would be willing to say 50 or 60 shots is probably good.
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Ok gave it a shot. here’s the results:
In real mission conditions I usually have a choke point I can funnel them through and if I don’t then I will happily default to melee. But that’s not viable to test so lets treat this as the ballistics gel of weapons testing and agree that its good enough for comparisons. I think these results bear out my own statement pretty well in this testing.
I will attempt to actually count the ammo used as in magazines and calculate a percentage of total later, to check against my own gut after review…but I just saw the low-int boredom factories drop off the board and get replaced with a nice Damnation Shock Troop Gauntlet. I’m off to slay heretics.
Edit:
Autopistol:
not accounting for the 4th mag which was for like a few remaining guys
165 shots were fired of 608 or 27% of total.
Lawbringer:
Not accounting for that last guy. I noticably had to melee unlike the autopistol.
15 shots were fired of 66 or 22% of total ammunition. There were few i think were wasted but lets not split hairs.
So its neither much more ammo efficient and, as stated, worse. But its also not that bad especially considering i’ve been told its a “literal waste of time” and “should never be used” by various people. It also has snapshot utility for being able to suddenly remove a decent number of enemies from around a friendly without missing a beat in melee. Given the flexibility this gives the lawbringer i still think my analysis was close to right.
If we wanted to buff special shell i’d say it probably needs more infested damage baseline and better pen damage. That’d probably be enough. And all the shotguns still desperately need ammo.
I have retested both guns
With the zealot I have these shotguns (Kantrael one has been bought from Merk’ shop)
Verdict: Kantrael is finally really good with the zealot gameplay. You can eliminate a threat really fast with it and the special shot can be useful. This time I tested it in heresy.
I think that this shotgun will replace my lawbringer. In a melee, the kantrael seems to be more efficient than the lawbringer. As a zealot, I use a lot my melee weapons and few times my ranged ones.
A shotgun is really good for this purpose. You can switch to it really fast when need (dreg rager by example). Off course, the kantrael has a problem of ammo, like ALL shotguns.
(PLEASE FS, GIVE US AMMOS!)
For veteran, here my shotguns.
I have tested the Agri in damnation. Well, it was the longest run I’ve done. Not by the time, but by the lack of power I experimented. At final, I used my melee weapon.
The Agri seems good on paper. The full bore works great on it. The special shot is not bad, but really not wonderful.
I will keep using my lawbringer. The agri is not good in my opinion even if, and this is absolutely needed if you use it, you aim (IMPORTANT, check damages table and you will understand) and hit the weak spot (important also).
Off course, even as a veteran, the shotguns have not enough ammunitions.
I use the MK IX with a good roll (375) and good perks and blessings (no respite T4 and full bore T3) on the zealot and its fun on T4 and T5.
Not great but pretty playable. The ammo pool should be bigger and the reload time is bad, otherwise its ok imo. The special ammo is great because of the infinite pen and just fun to use.
ofc you can push the reload time on the vet and you have more ammo but for the vet you might choose the MK VII.
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Maybe I am wrong, but I am not sure the Kantrael works great with full bore as it is described as having a large spread when shooting.
Like scattershot is a bad idea for the agri. That’s the second thing I want to test for the fun, a kantrael with scattershot and man stopper (I already have the gun with scattershot, need the plasteel…).
After putting together a decent Agripinaa (8% vs elites, 25% vs flak, T3 full bore, T4 no respite), it has successfully replaced my bolter as the companion weapon to antax on my zealot. I absolutely adore this thing vs bulwarks. With weak spot hits, which are relatively easy to land while the bulwark is staggered, I can reliably take one down in 3 shots (that’s including the shot I use to open up the shield btw). Not using ADS helps land the second shot before it gets the shield back up. Or if you’re in melee range, just open the shield and swap to antax and let it do the rest.
It has plenty of other good qualities too, like knocking down crushers and reapers at will and dealing with ragers pretty effectively. Shotgunners go down to 1-2 shots depending on where I hit them. The only thing that lets it down a bit IMHO is performance vs trash shooters. On damnation there are so many of them that loading a special shell for each one just takes too long. This is where I most often find myself reverting to the regular shots, and they admittedly do let you down a bit. Spending 2-3 shots on each trash shooter hurts ammo efficiency, even if the agripinaa has the most ammo of all the shotguns.
But in general I’m well pleased with the agripinaa. I wish the regular shot did just a tiny bit more damage, but overall it’s not bad. Not the best either, but not bad.
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I need one really good to test it with the veteran… the one I have is not great.
I need a 25% vs flak, full bore, no respite on one (with good modifier rating) to be able to test it seems.
But the one I have shown did not impress me… at contrary it was really a difficult run cause I had to rely a lot on the other members of the team.
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My current thinking is that i need different blessings to make my kantrael shine and it hurts for ammo too badly considering my prefered melee choice means i lean on my ranged a bit more.
I rerolled my lawbringer from 10% reload to 25% flak and that proved a great decision. Special shell still proves a great horde thinner when i’m being overwhelmed and it is flexible enough for adhoc shooter duty and always handy for specials. I take it when i see veterans in my team and it remains my default.
I think full bore and no respite are musts on Agripinaa. I was lucky on my perk rolls including 20% unarmored so i could take 25% flak too and cover both shooter types. Its a very aim required kind of weapon and i favor it for games with 0-1 vets with several ogryn/psykers when i know shooters and gunners are going to be a hassle all game. At what i call medium range (sub 40m) i can reliably 2 tap heads. At sub 20m i can always onetap heads. When i get into twotap land and things get small i swap to the slower but more ammo efficient slug.
I love the shotguns on zealot because they really compliment the dynamic gameplay zealots require. A ranged weapon that comes up fast and has variable spread for variable targets and ranges is just so perfect.
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I’m happy they added different shotguns with different spreads, ranges and special ammo. The Agripinaa feels like it’s lagging behind though. It’s okay for head shotting with the slugs but that seems to be about it. The default shells may not even get a kill with a headshot.
Ok, I have continued my tests.
Now this was with the veteran.
Let’s say that the kantrael is my favorite on the zealot and that I can do lot of damages with it.
Now, on veteran… I put the images of the ones I’ve got (sidenote: two of them were from Merk)
About Kantrael
I had doubts about the ammo pool of the weapon when used with a veteran. I would say, it can be managed. I would like, yet, 30% more ammo for the shotguns… but it can be used by the veteran.
First one works great with right feats (deadshot is a must). It can destroy hordes quickly. But, let’s be honest, the special of the Kantrael can also kill an horde.
But I love the cleaving effet with the shotgun and the high damages of this shotgun version.
The second one is exactly the one I use on my zealot. It works really great. I hesitated to put full bore, but the kantrael has a wide spread, I am not sure it is a good idea.
About Agri
This weapon is good on damnation. Especially for sniper condition… and even more in ventilation purge. This weapon is a killer in difficulties below that (in malice this is a true monster)…
I really love this gun… I prefer the Kantrael cause I love close combat (my main is a zealot) but the Agri is really good.
As a consequence, I have modified my votes…
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Just replying to argue that the new Agripinaa shotgun is PHENOMENAL on Zealot. If you can land headshots with it, you can assist Veterans and Psykers with taking out specials and elites, plus the slug round is great for knocking over enemy Ogryns. Complements the Zealot’s loadout very well.
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I preter the agripinaa or lawbringer over the kantrael. I already have a melee weapon so I don’t need a second, so i pass on the big shotty. Agripinaa is great for being a flexible ranged weapon with up close punch and the lawbringer is a good allrounder.
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The Kantrael is a monster that can devour anything in middle of a melee.
That’s my prefered weapon now for the zealot, as I spend my time in melee.
It works really great with a veteran. BUT, I really love the agri on my vet. It is really a strong weapon with this class. If you aim well and chain headshots, it is really a strong weapon.
Plus, the special shell can one shot lot of specials / elites (minus mauler and mutants).
I would not use the agri on my zealot cause I need a weapon that can kill fast a flak armored enemy in middle of a melee. Also, the kantrael is great against Bulwarks.
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Fire shot is insane with heavy Sword too. Shoot the special to set stuff on fire then swap to heavy sword and the burn will proc/benefit from head taker. Lets the fire shot effectively one shot a shotgunner and some surrounding shooters while you dive the group with head taker already maxed.