[Veteran] Keystones Talk + Poll

[Antilus]

you are a Zealot main, that refuses to play havoc out of compassion for the other classes? Its just more honest to just say you don’t like it end of discussion, nobody compells you to play it

[dannylew8299]

@Raichu

@Tarquelne

Grenadier Keystone - Here’s where you’d find all those great grenade-centric talents that you see on, it seems, pretty much every Vet now.

I like this idea, Swap FT with Grenadier, turn FT into a flat lower increase optional buff removes the stack management and just encourages tagging.

Hey hey hey

I see what you’re I SEE WHAT YOU’RE DOING, PAL!

@dannylew8299

Gold tag can be a blue talent and infinite grenades should probably be the keystone©:trade_mark:.

Gimme my tariff money!!!

[Infected_Animal1]

@dannylew8299

My honest opinion is that Veteran’s tree has regular nodes strong enough to be keystones and also that the sub-nodes for all of his keystones are mostly whatever.

I don’t feel like I’m missing something crucial to my build when I go without a Keystone the same way I’d feel something is missing if I don’t take survivalist or demo stockpile.

Fair, I personally disagree but if people wanna build without them that’s their choice.

@Molonious

Given the nature of the way the haphazard and hurried way the Vet keystones introduced, I find it really hard to give any intention that much credit, and it’s an odd intention given the nature of what Keystones are supposed to be, and an intention that has been communicated nowhere.

I heavily disagree, the keystones fit perfectly with the keystone art and fit nicely within the build. I was just giving an example for how it interacts with deadshot showing it makes a first unusual build work.

@Molonious

The Vet keystones really feel overthought and unrefined, again requiring more conditions or active triggering than most of the other Keystones in the game

Shoot heads and do more ranged damage, tag enemy and do more damage against them, kill enemy’s and swap weapon for bonuses.

@Molonious

A player can trigger Blazing Piety or Warp Siphon doing literally nothing themselves. FNP and Burst Limiter Override are just always on, while Heavy Hitter stacks whenever you just…hit something. Empowered Psionics is just an always-on Proc chance that makes your next Blitz attack more powerful. The only Keystones that have the same level of conditions/triggers as the Vet talents really are Martyrdom and Disrupt Destiny.

So other keystones being lazily made and requiring little thought to activate means Vets is bad because it asks u to do the bare minimum? I can’t even…

@Molonious

Hrm, looking at the tree, I don’t think I’m seeing that. The Keystone and upgrade nodes all portray a character calmly taking aim with a scoped weapon and crosshairs, imagery typically associated with careful aimed shots. Likewise, it’s the side of the tree with all the weakspot damage enhancements (again ostensibly emphasizing careful aimed shots) and talents that give damage bonuses for staying at distance and out of melee or things like sway reduction for aimed shots.

The key art for a start says something very different with the left sides being a guy hip firing with a belt fed mag… then there’s ex stance only lasting for 5 seconds and giving ur gun a good bit of recoil reduction and added accuracy to make hipfire viable, extra ammo and u outright stating marksman focus works better for automatics earleir. Like u can use semis for it but the pic at the top alone should make clear what each keystones playstyle is aimed at.

@Antilus

i said my pice back when it happened

A good few of these are buffs and the nerfs are either pretty minor or completly justified. That old comfired kill and old voice of command alone sounds busted beyond belief.

@Tarquelne

I think the fundamental problem with the keystones is that they do too little to reward changing how you play, and instead just give you bonuses for what you’re doing anyway. And because they’re bonuses for what you’re doing anyway, FS can’t make them all that great. (This is true for several non-Vet keystones, too, but I think Vet’s the worst offender.)

I sort of agree but their whole point is to push u more in a direction then forcing you to only use one option.

@Tarquelne

Grenadier Keystone - Here’s where you’d find all those great grenade-centric talents that you see on, it seems, pretty much every Vet now.

Commander Keystone - The support talents aren’t all moved here, but this is where you get the talents to make them great. If you want gold toughness, you only get it here.

Commando Keystone: Weapon Specialist but with a one word name, see? I assume other improvements could be made.

People need to stop assuming just because they don’t use keystones that they need to gimp the rest of the class and make the keystones the into the most broken things in their entire kit.

Vet’s shredders grenades are already stupidly strong and borderline grounds for demo stockpile being nerfed with a longer timeer. The other 2 grenades are also mid with krak taking forever to deploy and smoke being smoke.

Gold toughness is way too strong in it’s current state, I’d prefer if we have less of it and not more.

WS is fine and at most should have some of it’s lower nodes combined.

@Antilus

they make you jump hoops for buffs that you don’t need

Yea like shooting guys in the head and running around… oh wait-

That’s it, here’s a vid on why you’re wrong

Just click on head and u can regain easily, get and camoflauge and hitting a head will make it regain even as u move. Please play a game with something before u say it’s bad

@Raichu

Yeah strangely it tries to fit both fire rate and auto crit (fast and slow range weapons) seems it should emphasis more with the fast weapons as the close quarters keystone and just apply a increase crit chance for duration and get more “bang” out of stack beyond 3.

Not really, it makes it more veristile for more weapons and that one crit can go a long way

@Raichu

String crits are extremely gimmicky notion rather than intentional similar to Shroudfield range multi-procing.

It’s fully intentional, believe they even mentioned in a patch changing the amount IAG and braced has. It also allows automatics to better take advantage of it.

@Raichu

Executioner’s Stance is the only method for Veteran accuracy/recoil boosts. If veteran or especially WS, where the fire rate recoil increases, had something like dance of death all of a sudden ranged fire rate becomes usable on more weapons.

Eh, I think it’d be better suited for the perk designed to keep u shooting then the one ment for a quick bonus.

Anyway until I see any genuinely good points I’m just gonna leave it here and assume you’ll actually try something before saying it needs to be overhauled… again

[Raichu]

@Infected_Animal1

Anyway until I see any genuinely good points I’m just gonna leave it here and assume you’ll actually try something before saying it needs to be overhauled… again

Obviously we disagree on everything and the condescending tone throughout your posts is quite off putting so just going to ignore you from here forth.

[Antilus]

@Infected_Animal1

vid on why you’re wrong

@Infected_Animal1

That old comfired kill and old voice of command alone sounds busted beyond belief.

that voice of command of +100 thougness we had for a few weeks was nothing like the one we have now, the gold thougness mechanics changed, the old didn’t provide you with invulnerability if you wasn’t at full thougness, the voice of command we have today gives you invul even with +1 overthougness

i think you are just very ignorant on the matter, but there is no need for me to school anybody, just have it your way and gtfo

[Ralendil]

@Antilus

you are a Zealot main, that refuses to play havoc out of compassion for the other classes?

I refuse to play havoc cause I hate this game mode.
Every time I played it, I was just waiting that the mission ends… I dislike every aspect of havoc.
And what I dislike is the point that make pointless to speak of havoc regarding balance… Havoc is a game mode made for few builds and that forbids you to play lot of weapons and talents. You cannot speak around game balance by considering Havoc for this. And this due to how they have built it…

@Infected_Animal1

Fair, I personally disagree but if people wanna build without them that’s their choice.

To be fair, you get more without taking them.
But that’s not the problem for me. The main problem is that keystone are things that have a big impact on your gameplay.
When I play martyrdom zealot, I know that I won’t take a single medicae charge in the mission. I don’t play the same if I go piety than if I play inexorable judgment.
Same about Ogryn (sidenote: not impressed by the middle keystone, and first it still better… too good tbh). First keystone make you a melee warrior, the 3rd a machine gun on legs… the middle… well that’s the middle.

I feel that keystones should give an identity of a build… however, I really dislike the propositions for the veteran class.

[Raichu]

@Ralendil

I feel that keystones should give an identity of a build… however, I really dislike the propositions for the veteran class.

Yah the spit ball ideas don’t feel right to me either, veteran doesn’t need more damage as a keystone already kills everything well enough.

Better ads zoom, temp immunity while ads… much easier shooting ideas down than making them up =\ also good reason for a forum post.

[Raichu]

Well updated ideas into original post from our talks for fine tuning, criticism, and in extended optimism for FS.

[alsozara]

@Raichu

When you shoot your ranged specialist activates, gaining +20% Ranged Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Damage per stack.

Wait are you actually suggesting 10 seconds of +100% crit chance AND damage for killing 5 mobs in melee? I feel like I simply must be misunderstanding here cause that is complete batshit the way I’m reading it.

[Raichu]

For 1 shot… or string crit for auto guns that just crit that way, slide boost for 10s