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My biggest issue with the hammers is the attack animations and reach of the weapons themselves, in terms of damage, I’m fine with how they are. Sure a little touch up would be nice but preferably simply adjust the weapons animations and range.
Enemies seem to consistently slip under the hammer or be a hair out of grasp when you need to land that big wallop. God knows how many times I’ve stacked up my buffs to try and 1 shot a boss for it to move away at the last moment. Or I’ve been caught by a maniac mid horde clear
I think this is my biggest problem with it and its biggest departure from the Kruber/Bardin hammer. The heavies have a similar profile -great stagger cleave but low damage- while the K/B hammer lights had superlative single target damage. Especially L1 and L2 but even L3 wasn’t terrible. The lights on the thunder hammer might as well be a wiffle bat, they just feel so impotent.
I’m not sure why they made that deliberate change as it wrecks the whole balance of the weapon. As it stands, it’s just a one-trick pony, monster slayer and most enemies on the map are not monsters.
I think it’s pretty clear why they did it. They were funneling the single target damage into the new special attack and probably thought it made sense that unempowered attacks were weaker to compensate. The gulf between empowered heavies and unempowered (and for that matter empowered as well) lights is just a good bit wider than it needs to be. I swear there’s nothing fundamentally wrong with T Hammer in its design, it mostly just needs number edits.
The bloated blessing pool is certainly annoying but it’s not the main issue with it currently.
I do feel that its reach is bad. I have no idea why, but it does feel that way. I havent tested it or anything. I definitely get ghost hits.
With the TH having inherent lag time baked into its function: with the activation time, the charge time for thrust, and the self stun that follows, where do you think the break points should be on the activated attacks? Both light and heavy
A charged heavy on thunder hammer should kill any non-boss entity in 2 hits. With T3/4 Thrust, it should kill everything not a boss in one.
It’s a heavily specialized weapon with self-stun. It needs to be deadly.
This is just a bit of a side note - but i feel like the reason why the thunderhammer is really suffering is due to the nerf of what used to be thunderhammer’s trustworthy wave clear - the flamer. nerfing the flamer into the ground really exposed how bad the thunderhammer situation was /=
An good start for all power/chain weapons would be for them to not unexpectedly turn off.
Could you imagine if there was a high damage weapon in game with a
folded turned on state that just… you know stayed on.
What should set apart the crucis from the ironhelm, aside from the moveset?
Good question. For all of these I’m assuming no blessings or perks unless otherwise stated. I’m also assuming no other changes to T Hammer.
For Crucis and Ironhelm both I think empowered light attacks should one head shot anything squishier than a mauler. Obviously Crucis would need less perfect stat rolls to do this. I think both Hammer empowered heavies should body shot any elite squishier than a mauler (and only require minor investment to do so to a mauler as well).
Crucis empowered heavies should head shot kill a crusher, body shot with either offensive Ult OR Thrust. Ironhelm should require perk at least to head shot and should require Ult + perk/thrust to body shot.
Boss damage should be left as is or they can even nerf it a bit if they make that elite BP improvements. Thrust would now be largely optional for extra boss burst or covering up bad base stats/perks. You might even consider skull crusher + S&A or something goofy like that to make unempowered mode better since you don’t need to commit all your blessings to hitting the break points you need.
Easier breakpoints. Noticeably higher boss burst. I genuinely think that’s enough.
I would suggest having the Crucis being better for Ogryns and having a better light empowered hit to make it more viable as a single-target eliminator, while the Ironhelm is better for handling mixed hordes/elite packs.
I’m in a similar camp regarding breakpoints.
I think the crucis should largely be able to to one tap crushers on a heavy headshot with good rolls on the weapon, and a heavy body shot with good rolls and perks. It would allow the blessing slots for crucis to be more flexible. With the ironhelm, I think it should have to conform to the current meta to get that crusher busting power. Good rolls, thrust, and at least one of carapace or unyielding.
Hitting that mauler breakpoint should be much more attainable for both thunderhammers IMO
Something I found really cool when rewatching an old trailer is that the thunder hammer attacks seemed to work completely differently:
(it also shows up again at 1:35)
If it could have those powered up cool lights it would probably be very fun to use. Unfortunately they decided to get rid of the cool impact particles, sounds, and decided to make the lights completely unpowered and impotent.
The Chainsword revved behavior is also interesting, seems to be a toggle rather than a 1 attack setting, and it looks like the heavies cleaved. Also a las gun without a recon sight.
The meta blessings are essentially worthless outside of feel-good memes.
Slaughter changes no breakpoints on the hammer, while having the hard requirement of killing trash mobs fast forward (which the hammer cannot do efficiently anyway). Actually worthless.
Thrust adds nuclear single target damage all at once, but you are committing to every attack taking 40% longer. If you simply spam charged heavies as fast as you can, not stacking anything, the DPS is actually similar while not requiring a blessing at all. If you are relying on double Chastise crit procs, then yeah, the boss DPS is higher, but sacrificing at DPS in all other scenarios.
Headtaker is strictly better than other options realistically, since it’s not only Power, but also adds single target damage. This blessing is actually quite good.
Momentum is literally worthless on a class that already has access to a talent that gives 7.5% toughness on a Heavy Attack kill.
Hammerblow, Shock and Awe, Thunderstrike, and Trauma are all literally worthless. The hammers baseline already floor splat all mobs inherently. Combine this with the fact the Zealot already has 3-4 talents in the tree to add Impact and Stagger bonuses for free.
Skullcrusher, which no one uses, is factually the highest damage blessing the hammers have access to for trash clearing, while also working on all enemies but bosses.
Thunderous is amazing, but not on slow weapons that already have high armor penetration.
So TLDR, no the meta hammer blessings have no impact on general hammer performance, nor on the design problems of the weapon in general.