It felt like a toy hammer not a thunder hammer with the cancel. Just swinging power attacks over and over felt miserable. I know why people liked it and i know its poor base damage and terrible horde clear are big drawbacks but thats why argued for better base damage. Even in its current state with all its problems i still effectively use it to top the specials and elites charts most games. Which is its intended purpose. It not having horde clear is fine. You’re supposed to bring a secondary weapon that does horde clear.
I’m sorry I just don’t buy this, or at least I’m sure it’s your gun doing a good bit of that. No way with the current self stun and general attack speed you should be killing more elites than a good Caxe, even a good Taxe unless the level is for some reason entirely bulwarks, reapers and Crushers. A decent Deimos Psyker should be killing elites astoundingly faster to be frank.
So if that’s even true I guess you’re an awful lot more skilled than the average PUG player but that doesn’t say much.
Anyway I don’t think we’re going to see eye to eye on this.
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I agree but I think that’s a generally good thing. If they can find a way to make both of us happy with the hammer all the better, but if the manage to make either of us happy then its likely they’ll have made players similar to us happy. At a minimum my hope would be the hammer appeals to some subset of players who end up preferring it to other options. Weapons like the axe are generalist weapons that aren’t really that deep to use, from a skill ceiling standpoint. They’re just good at everything, and I have no objection to that (except that I feel like they’re in the spot chain weapons should be in but that is another problem all together). A weapon like the hammer has a lopsided focus on elite and special sniping. It has bad horde clear but good crowd control through stagger. It has a host of drawbacks and benefits that make it a weapon that appeals to me due to the depth of techniques it invokes through its weaknesses and the interest in finding a way to make it work. I always like hunting for unexpected potential in the objectively inferior weapons and one reason for that is my subjective gameplay experience is better. My hope would be that they preserve the challenges that make it interesting while actually making it pay off better to use. The setup is there but the payout is lackluster.
I don’t see why, its perfectly viable to run in and one-bonk several. I do it all the time. Though psykers certainly tend to pop more elites than I do as a general rule but I’m not complaining. In fact anyone focusing on ranged can totally invalidate my weapon selection unless something really tanky comes along. Out of curiosity I counted out my distribution of elites and specials kills (final blows only) in my most recent STG-Hi-Int game and here is the scoreboard and the results:
Disablers
- Shotgun 17 (Almost all trappers)
- Hammer 29 (mostly Muties, Dogs)
Specials
- Shotgun 32 (bombers, snipers)
- Hammer 15 (mostly flamers or bursters)
Melee Elites
- Shotgun 3 (ragers)
- Hammer 7 (ragers, bulwarks. Hit many crushers, got final blow on few)
Ranged Elites
- Shotgun 11 (shotgunners, gunners, reapers)
- Hammer 2 (reapers)
Definitely not my best elite kill game but there were hardly any bulwarks or ragers for me to slap. The autopistol invalidated most of my need to beat up ragers. But since I can onetap them pretty effectively I killed a few when the team was busy or getting overwhelmed.
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That is actually great news, but are they sure they didn’t mean the Ironhelm rather than Crucis?
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If they have any sense at all they’re talking about both.
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Yeah I just confirmed it on the Comm Link thread… they meant both.
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sweet. I’m most excited about the headshot damage increase. The 0.6s stunlock might be really good, might make the weapon excellent. Some recent tangles with large groups of elites has me thinking this would have made the difference between tanking those hits on toughness and not getting hit at all.
Also if crucius gets buffed enough I might go back despite the lack of cleave on powered hit just because I have some excellent rolls on those. Better than any ironhelms I currently have.
I’ll probably start using both,
Right now I only take the Ironhelm into special conditions where I have to use a Flashlight, because with Crucis you need to use the Flamer with it since it can’t cleave through targets to hit the Elites, so you have to clear those out first. Ironhelm, I can start using the host of other god rolled ranged weapons I have sitting on the shelf.
Honestly in pure melee terms I know when I use the Crucis I am much more effective currently, due to familiarity, but admittedly Ironhelm is much less frustrating.
I find Crucis play much smoother than Ironhelm, but if it enables me to use the other ranged weapons I have, then I will start using Ironhelm a lot more.
One of the reasons I keep always taking Thunder Hammer on missions is because of the enormous amount of Elites in Heresy and Damnation missions (yes I do both, whichever one has the High Ints). And what I notice is that severa lack of ability of my teams to take down Elites and Monstrosities, They all want to pack the light weapons which don’t work very well on them., so they get crushed when the press happens.
That may change now. I’m seeing more Thunder Hammers come out nowadays.
Like yesterday I was in that Assassination mission Magistrati Oubliette, the entire team which was Ogryn, Psycher, Zealot, and Me. We had gotten to the point where you jump down from the overpass into the long sewer tunnel, and got mobbed by 5 Ragers, 2 Crushers, 2 Bulworks, 8 of the Flak Melees, and between me and the Ogryn were taking them down, when a Plague Ogryn Spawned. He beaned with Grenades while I tried to finish taking down the Crushers and Bulworks, and it pushed us all the way back to the wall behind the overhang,
He was getting pummeled by the Plague Ogryn while I was chasting after it with TH, and the Crushers were on me. There was just nowhere to dodge.
All 4 of us were backed into the wall with this mass of Elites, Armor, and Monstrosity. I managed to flamer off the small stuff, but the Psycher was getting crushed, So me and the Ogryn were finally able to switch targets and I soloed the Plague Ogryn while he knocked down the Crushers and Bulworks now down to 3 total. I took out the Plague Ogryn and he had it down to just one Crusher and a Bulwork left which we easily polished off at that point. We’d lost the other Zealot because he just flat out didn’t have the right axe for that. The Psycher had gone down but was still alive. Me and the Ogryn still on our feet barely and beat that crunch.
But it couldn’t have been done without TH. I’ve run into so many situations like that which is why I always use it and found a way to make it work by using the Flamer with it long ago, but I had to do that all the time if I wanted it to be effective. That changes with the Ironhelm.