right after you hit something with the special there is a period where you can’t dodge. just died cuz of it. its needless and should be removed imo
7 Likes
Yeah it is very senseless and even after being reduced a bunch through updates kills the viability of the weapon. In order to encourage the powered up hits its ADM vs some elite armors on unpowered hits is garbage. The only slight bypass we have to this is the strikedown heavy 3 on Ironhelm, being fairly close to an empowered light attack in raw damage. But that one craters its unyielding hit to achieve that, subtracting a lot of the thunderhammer positive and about the only juice you get from the squeeze.
4 Likes
There’s a lot wrong with the Thunder Hammers at the moment, but the self stun period is very funny when you consider the damage is comparable to the Ogryn Pickaxe, which does Crusher 1 shots, horde clear, good boss damage, and elite group killing easily WITHOUT any self stun.
They were very obviously designed for an earlier state of Darktide balance.
Maybe removing the self stun would be enough to save the Crucis, but the Ironhelm feels like one of the worst Havoc weapons right now. Someone else can tell me if it feels good in Auric with the reduced difficulty.
5 Likes
It does not.
It needs the bump bug that deletes your special activation (actually) fixed at a miniumum.
Heavy swing attack speed would be much appreciated for helping thrust, but not necessary to fix it.
I want to love it so bad.
I occasionally have a good time on a monstrous special mael.
But, more often than not, the monstrosity dies before I get a hit in, I have to contend with the janky dump-truck ass hitbox of a spawn, burgle slime slow downs create more opportunities for a bump bug (and somehow guarantee your shroudfield ends juuuust before you reach the g-spot), or just the general unpleasantness of using it in a horde (of anything).
I can maybe string together ~3 runs a week where I am able to tolerate it all and enjoy the weapon if I feel like forcing it.
But it’s such a sadness knowing what other weapons can do without half the tradeoffs the hammer has.
3 Likes
I’ve forced myself to run it in 40s, and I’ve gotten wins in with good damage, but it really feels miserable to play with no clutch potential. And one of the 2 “pros” of the weapon over the Crucis, the sweeping cleaving heavy, is actually a detriment as it does less damage than the overhead so you’ll miss breakpoints. So a lot of the time I would find myself push canceling to get an overhead instead of sweeping. The reduced self stun time is noticeable from the Crucis, but beyond that it’s not great.
Same 
The part that really sucks though is there are moments, where like at most for a minute everything lines up perfectly and it feels like an amazing weapon to use.
Maneuvering through the horde and sniping all the elites and specials (when they’ve probably taken chip damage already so I can 1 shot them) and not taking any damage feels euphoric. And then the next encounter you feel like you’re using a clowns funny stick and not doing anything.
3 Likes
The TH is really only usable with Martyrdom as that gives you enough enough damage to make anything that’s not boss killing just barely tolerable. I could understand if the special had a self-stun if the regular attacks hit harder than a wet noodle.
Ironhelm just needs something to differentiate itself from the Crucis. Ever since the Crucis got its buff there’s really no reason to take Ironhelm anymore. I’d say make the Ironhelm the “versatile” one by making the special not interrupt the combo and adjust the combo a bit (make push attack combo into H1).
1 Like
All weapon activations need some QoL changes, like not reducing your speed to snails-pace. Is my guy so focused on pressing a button that he can barely walk?
5 Likes
Crucis is fine, you have everything you might need in this weapon:
- Heavy sweeps for mixed horses
- Light attacks for gunners or in between heavies for tougher enemies
- Monsti damage
- Crusher one shots
- Bulwark opener/one shot
- High stunning power for rangers
It just has a long learning curve unlike some other popular weapons.
As for iron helm, I never got comfortable with it - too many switches between vertical and horizontal swings.
The real problem lies in the class; it is currently overshadowed from survival.exe aka arbites.
All the humans are a bit bad vs Arbites, and if the game is just moving towards Ogryn’fying more characters it might be time to uninstall. It already goes into haywire not playing all the prompts for the enemy vomit it needs every 3 seconds for challenge.
3 Likes
Yeah it’s time that class gets a nerf. Having the biggest toughness pool, highest damage reduction and getting toughness just for breathing is a tad too much
1 Like
I feel like if they were a vanilla character, the stamina into toughness talent would be considered an oversight. And that isn’t even the most offensive thing there, it’s just one of the more interesting ones. Its basically toughness for pressing W. Like if it was on Veteran you know there would be at least 2 activation clauses to that.
2 Likes
It’s the same toughness per second as Catch a Breath, which imo isn’t hard to keep up.
2 Likes
There are more than just that issue
I feel like Thrust might be a leftover from the gimmick one-tap builds. Good for a wombo-combo out of stealth but not flexible. Has anyone tried Headtaker+Slaughterer together in the high havocs? If so, how was it?
1 Like
I haven’t tried it, but the problem with slaughterer on Thammer is the consistency. You need power to hit 1 shots otherwise you will feel gimped and be in a bad spot when you don’t kill an enemy. With slaughterer you need kills to get power. If a pack of elites or a boss show up, you’re kind of screwed. Thrust you just hold heavy attack whenever you need to.
If you are able to get all stacks up it probably feels better but idk how often you would be able to get that when you need it.
Also this goes nicely back into the topic of the thread, self stun. Because of self stun and only getting 1 empowered attack, and the Thunder Hammers being so pathetic in their unpowered state, you practically have to build them as one shot builds. Because if you don’t one shot (and sometimes even if you do) you’ll be getting a face full of a Maulers chain axe.
It’s especially funny on Red Havoc modifier where an enemy will eat an empowered heavy and laugh at you.
3 Likes
but Catch a Breath deals with a time out period, it’s an activation clause on top of 8m or whatever the distance is. its sometimes worse from it being tied to death animations ending too. being tied to stamina and also being on the character sharing psyker’s regen delay means it’s basically always giving you free toughness unless you are sprinting with no stamina. who does that
Also, I understand the numbers are different, but why would I take the block toughness regen right next to it instead or in addition, when blocking uses stamina as well as just moving, push attacks, etc.
It’s maybe the one node in the arbites tree I never really have to consider if I want to drop an extra point in.
When they reworked it to have the time out period, they removed the distance requirement. It will have uptime as long as you aren’t getting hit by a melee attack.
Is the Arbites version better? 100%. I probably should’ve emphasized that in the first post. But Catch a Breath is still a very strong passive toughness regen node.
I don’t really know what you mean by this. Is this something to do with confirmed kill?
1 Like
I use slaughterer with thrust on crucis. Since the rework nearly every heavy swing kills at least one enemy so slaughterer uptime is great as long as there are enemies. And when you encounter a monstrosity mid wave you have very high nuking potential. Tested at havoc 30.
Also there is such a small no dodge time it is nearly negligible. Just try to predict a bit while playing
1 Like
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