This, basically. If you wanted the thunder hammer to work with the current design (i.e. single target special ability), it seems obvious that you’d want the heavy swing to be overhead so that powerful charged swings were easy to land. Lights would then become the horde clear option, and would also be less powerful and not so prone to throwing targets all over the place.
It won’t happen of course, but it’s a nice thought experiment.
Slaughterer is rather obviously overpowered if you ask me, both on the thunder hammer and elsewhere. Really, blessings just need to be brought within reasonable range of each other so that some don’t absolutely suck while others are ridiculously good.
It’s NOT… on Thunder Hammer…
What I said was… its REQUIRED on Thunder Hammer to be able to consistently kill Hordes. without it Desiu is correct, Thunder Hammer is not strong enough to be able to take down Hordes. And then its still going to require things like Thrust (+10%-30$ power the longer the Heavy Swing is held) and +20% vs Infested to be good at it.
That’s the problem,
EDIT: Understand the weapon I linked is a 520+ damage weapon with all those Blessings/Perks going on it in a Horde. Not to mention +15%-+30% power from Zealot Feats/Skills, which you will be in play on the actual field.
The average user of a Thunder Hammer is going to have only around a 250 damage TH without those blessings.
So we are still at >
BEST possible thunder hammer with slow heavy attacks barely deals with a horde AND it needs to stack itself.
One poxwalker that phases through Crushers model (which happens every single time these 2 are there) stops your charged TH attack.
The lockup animation after special even with dodge IS TOO long (does PS has this after 2 attacks that cleave through the ENTIRE horde?)
TH needs several buffs in many areas and only if you TURBO pump it, it is capable of keeping up with other weapons.
Interrupts won’t happen if u use appropriate feat, i know many people like to use healing feat, but it’s just bad. That feat that makes u basically stun immune (including ranged hits) is just too good to miss out.
Well unfortunately its hard to tell and you can’t really duplicate the scenario it in the Meatgrinder.
But… usually when its all going at once and I swing into a horde only about 3 will stand back up after a swing. The weapon stat for Crowd Control says it damages 8.24. So At full its probably killing up to 5 in a swing, but again that doesn’t take into account stacks of Martyrdom I may or may not have.
But I am running the Zealot Skill that is 5% damage per target hit (20%) so that needs to be accounted for too.
I mean these tools usually pull straight from the code. The moment patch 4 came out the damage calc was still accurate. I would recommend using it as the extremely helpful tool it is but obviously your call.
No that is definitely wrong at this point in the game.
You can literally go into the meatgrinder right now and push all 5 of them together and take a heavy swing and they will all be damaged. And that’s without Blessings. When I did it, without even holding for Thrust, 2 died, the other three were around half health.
So that calculator I’m assuming must have been done in Beta. That or they changed it at release.
You are extremely wrong. T Hammer only damaging 3 targets per swing is very common knowledge. I will do some testing in meat grinder myself this evening but I am 99.9% sure you’ve made a mistake.
It’s a CC weapon. Which is half the problem as TH’s are meant to be these ultimate weapons of destruction, not slow AF CC’s. People pick it for the obliterate charge, not the CC.
I’m absolutely sick of the idea of CC weapons.
CC can be a nice bonus to my weapon. But my weapon should first of all kill things. The weapon design in this domain is actually the worst. The shield and maul is the perfect example. For some reason they have decided that CC should be increased in proportion to damage lost. So the shield and maul hit like pillows. The hammer manages to be passable against light targets and is great against single targets but manages to absolutely suck where it should be the premium choice: mixed armored hordes.
When a group of flak, maulers, ragers, bulwarks and crushers rolls up, if I choose to run anything other than flamer alongside my hammer i know i am in for a really poor time. Earlier today i clutched a hi-int damnation against two bulwarks, three crushers, some number of flak ragers, three or four maulers and a fair few flak assault troops. I did this mostly by buying time with normal heavy swings, shotgun blasts, and barrels. Its incredibly poor design that THE armor buster is basically so gimped as to be useless against large ammounts of armor. Sure i had a ton of fun but i basically could not safely use my charged attack at any point. Imagine if a vet with a power sword had been there. He’d have been able to cut through most of that in a handful of swings and i spent like 8 minutes listening to ineffectual bonks from a THUNDER HAMMER. Man that really grinds my gears.
This goes to another point i’ve made which is we are being forced to balance power and chain weapons against normal sharp metal sticks. This scalar makes no sense. Add more power weapons and power weapon variety and lets be done with it. If people want to run suboptimally let them, i literally do it every game with my hammer!
In light of this i reject my previous restrained engancements propose the following;
Eliminate the self recoil on the hammer
Charging the weapon will allow 3 or 4 swings before needing to be recharged
Damage is still single target, first hit.
Will this be an incredible buff? Yes. It needs it.
Make hammer S tier.
Why are these my chosen buffs? Because they retain the thunder hammer’s enormous single target potential while making it a total overkill against horde targets. Having no cleave on powered attacks forces the hammer into the intended niche. Removing the self-stun reduces the penalty associated with “secret service agents”. Increasing swings before reaching an unpowered swings also reduces this problem and allows the hammer to work as an armor buster.
I hate to propose this because all the techniques i use to mitigate the self-stun will become bunk and I feel cool about them.
My main concern with this proposal is Monstrosities will be trivialized more than they already are. Counter point: plasma guns. Perhaps retain self-stun against monstrosities? Might feel weird.
Ogryn Paul and rumbler/gauntlet work really well as CC-based weapons with a pretty good balance between CC and damage. I mainly basing this on experience seeing ogryn CCing stuff and how much it enables teamwork (was running plasma the other day with a Paul ogryn who kept opening shields so I can 1 tap them, it was glorious) and ogryn players on the forums pretty much agreeing that they are fine weapon choices.
This wouldn’t do much since you can already cancel the self-recoil with a 1-1 cancel.
Considering that’s an exploit it will presumably either be patched out or enhanced and formalized (which is what i propose)
But you do bring up a good point. I’m typically stubborn about not using exploits but i could test my proposed change out, in part.
Actually Pmaul is objectively kinda pathetic. The two ton man with the fridge on a stick takes two unpowered swings to kill a poxwalker. I plan to write a proposal on this front too. Keep in mind Pmaul heavy swing does 189~ damage. Meanwhile crusher swings for 250~
