Sounds like the pox hounds. Those things don’t so much run as they just slide and drift everywhere. Pisses me off how they turn on a dime and just kind of sail through both the air and over the ground. They can instantly change direction multiple times without any loss of speed.
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I would love to see where you got this number from, especially if i can check my own accuracy stats
the only “indisputable” part is that the hitreg in this game sucks ass sometimes, in general scoring headshots against shooter pods is like fish in a barrel as they just stand still and light you up, and with melee mobs they are not hard to headshot at all, at least on PC they just run towards you in a line
also it should be pointed out that you dont get penalized for missing headshots it’s not like you’re banned from missing
I like the idea of focus target, but the other two are uninteresting or actively bad in my opinion. Marksman is gonna lead to standaround vets, weapon specialist is going to lead to people swapping their weapon constantly which I guess could be useful but given the other two I just find kinda a meh option (also, why is only one of them stacking?)
I was really hoping for something ammo or grenade focused. Maybe a 10% chance to load a magazine with specialist ammo maybe even alter ammo crates to give out explosive rounds or something to the group.
Without knowing all the follow on nodes its hard to say.
Marksman’s Focus
Fairly bland. Movement restrictions are a bad idea. They will make this far less usable/desireable on high difficulties where continuous movement is a necessity. This feels like it should be a weapon blessing.
Focus Target
I think most people have this all wrong. I only see people talking about how Vet’s won’t ping things, or issues with not the right thing being pinged due to wonky targeting… I am 100% the opposite direction. Minimum of 1 stack at all times? I am pinging everything so it all takes 5% more damage. Hope the team enjoys hearing that ping noise every 0.5 seconds… lmao.
Weapons Specialist
This seems like the most useful talent by a long shot. Not even close to the others. The only thing that needs to be massaged is the wording of the ranged crit chance increase. I assume its increasing your current crit rate by the % listed. EG, if I have 15% crit chance for my revolver and get 1 stack of Ranged Specialist my Ranged Critical Hit Chance will increase from 15% to 20% because 33% of 15 is 5 and 15+5=20. This might just be better off as a flat additive increase to ranged crit chance because there is so much confusion regarding % increases of a %.
Hopefully the follow on nodes for the first two make them actually useful. Both Marksman’s Focus and Focus Target appear incredibly uninteresting to me.
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Tbh… I think keystones are worse than what we have actually
Let’s wait. But if they mess the veteran, the only remaining, and that I will like to play, class for me will be zealot…
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I main Zealot, but man is an Ogryn ever fun to play. I’ve been enjoying a cleaver Ogryn lately lol
Many, many runs with the extended scoreboard mod. There aren’t all that many people playing the game, so my sample size is actually pretty good. You probably are not hitting nearly as many ranged headshots as you think you are. Any buff that exclusively works on weakspot hits on guns isn’t being procced all that often by the vast majority of players. It’s not like melee where the headshot rate is anywhere between 45 and 65 percent.
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Marksman focus shouldn’t have a movement penalty. Maybe a modifier node removes it, or increases the movement window to 6 seconds. I’m guessing some fast firing semi-auto guns, or auto guns could benefit from the additional damage for easier breakpoints?
Focus Target seems …fine for monster killing. Monstrosities aren’t really threatening though so I don’t think it’s super useful. I’m guessing there’s a modifier node to mark 2 targets a time. Could be ok. Idk. Damage is not an issue whatsoever in this game. Especially single target. I really don’t see value in this. It could be ok if they just make it start at 15% for those special waves where you are chain marking things.
Weapons Specialist looks to be insanely powerful, and the only keystone really worth talking about unless the modifier nodes for the other 2 are crazy.
It’s going to be Saltzpyre’s bounty hunter play style all over again, but on steroids it seems. You will 100% be able to keep up that additional melee speed meaning melee vet will have 30% attack speed between the passive node and the keystone.
I’m withholding full judgement until I see the modifier nodes, but currently 2 out of the 3 keystones are looking to be really mid, and might end up still building vet the same way which is avoiding the bottom of the tree because there’s nothing really substantial there.
EDIT: formatting
*Assuming this keystone isn’t replacing trench fighter drill outright.
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I’m going to take Marksman Focus and not move period during long engagements. When I inevitably go down I’ll rage at my team and screech about muh staks !!!
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True.
please post your documentation
what is your sample size? just for context there were 15 thousand people playing this game last month so I’d hope you have a few hundred games charted (and made sure to exclude psykers!)
i actually downloaded the (normal) scoreboard mod and it turns out i hit 579 weakspot hits in a pub game (i only had 589 lesser enemy kills so that’s like, a lot of headshot hits per kill) so thanks for bringing that up i learnt something!
i cannot wait to see you post your documentation on this phenomenon! it looks like you’ve put a lot of research in to be able to give numbers with such confidence!
until i see those numbers I will disregard everything you’re saying because it’s not hard to land headshots at all and you’re just making stuff up.
On marksman’s focus:
Maybe the ‘losing stacks’ works the same way as the Zealot’s ‘gaining stacks’ with Inexorable Judgement?
As in, you lose them quickly over time while moving, depending on speed, and moving for 3.5 seconds durind ADS will just drop you by a stack or 2?
Not that I’d ever personally find out, but theoretically the system’s there.
Also, it seems like some of the ‘exclusive’ notables have been moved up some (and exploit weakness moved down), so you won’t be able to get rending strikes anymore if you go for the melee tree.
That’s downright sad for anyone not using a shovel or powered weapon. Assuming they’ll actually be exclusive, it’s kind of a moot point at the moment.
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This is a solid breakdown of how I feel. I am reserving judgement until we get to see the rest of the skills in the tree. Too little information
Imo weapon specialist send like the GOAT pick for pure ease of use and benefit, especially in games where you are swapping from melee to ranged and back all the time.
The marking talent is basically just a worse version of the VT2 Witch hunter passive which is annoying. I can also see it being super annoying in high intensity gauntlets where you mean to rage one thing but tag the wrong target on accident so a random gunner gets +30% damage and not the intended target.
I don’t think I would be taking Marksman’s focus just because I move way to much for it to be worth it unless there are sone serious bonuses that one with it.
All and all I feel very mixed and would likely need to see what the connected talents are to figure out who honed I would go for
I don’t have all of this documented, and you know I don’t. I do have uploaded matches, and nobody in those ever hits high ranged weakspot rates. Ever. No matter their playtime. I’m routinely the highest, and I’m generally not getting above 15% with auto weapons, and between 40-50% with precision if I’m sweating my balls off. If you think people are putting out significant ranged damage and hitting insanely high weakspot rates, you don’t play shooters and know nothing about them. For context, in a competitive shooter, a 70% hit rate, not weakspot rate, is INSANELY high. Like, top 0.01 percentile. I don’t want to sound elitist, but most tide players couldn’t shoot their way out of a paper bag.
About 1000 matches, and probably close to 2500 unique players. I primarily play pubs. My evidence goes beyond anecdotal aside from the fact that I haven’t been recording the results to a spreadsheet.
Weak spot hits on the normal scoreboard combine melee and ranged. Nothing special about 579 on most builds. A high total weakspot hit build can easily go into 4 digits.
Start running the extended scoreboard. Use your ranged weapon for at least half your damage. Look at the ranged weakspot rate.
I also have to ask, if bringing a precision build and going for high ranged damage output, high weakspot rate isn’t the hardest build to run in the game, what is? If you say anything melee, I’m going to have to take you a lot less seriously. Melee is insanely strong in this game and the dodge timings are objectively very lenient. Plus everything is going to rush you down if you stay in ranged combat anyway, so you’ll still be doing plenty of dodging, only with the added stress of trying to maintain ranged headshots while doing so.
Let’s see some matches, or at the very least some numbers.
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For what it’s worth my own observations and experiences line up with Xero’s here. I’m a pretty decent shot, but this the game can make it pretty hard even for decent players to maintain a decent weakspot hit rate. Nevermind the latency shenanigans me and a lot of others go through probably putting a dent on whatever the numbers are too.
Funny thing is that all weapons designed around headplinking are actually harder to get headshots on vs high recoil weapons like infantry autoguns. Headhunter recoil patterns are designed to make it hard to put an entire burst or multiple shots as headshots, same for the lasguns. Most of my HS builds revolve around punishing salvo Columnus and Agrip IAGs, here’s where I get the highest and more consistent headshot rates as I’ve been experimenting with builds.
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I’m giving this guy all the opportunity in the world to prove anyone is using a gun for a significant portion of their total damage and maintaining extremely high weakspot rates. It doesn’t even have to be him. Link to anyone able to do it. I’m not trying to gloat, I’ve never seen anyone come close to my rates, and my rates are still not all that high.
My entire point is that ranged weakspots with the vast majority of guns in this game are not as common as a lot of people seem to think. The buffs they receive in this game, due to the stupid “bucket” system, are miniscule, and now we’re getting additional caveats associated with the new weakspot keystone. It boggles my mind.
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You’re disregarding my point while providing 0 actual evidence. You don’t want to address the argument. I’m literally allowing you to provide a sample size of 1 and you can’t do it. I can’t prove my sample size to you, fair enough, but as far as I’m concerned, I experienced all of those matches. I’ve got a good idea of what the average ranged weakspot rate is. You literally have no clue whatsoever. You think it’s much, much, much higher than it actually is.
Search XeroShinobi on YouTube, my guy.
This isn’t a trick question. If a ranged build focused on ranged weakspot hits isn’t the hardest general build to run in the game, what is? Spray and pray builds are objectively easier, melee focused builds are objectively easier. Give me something. If you said trauma staff Psyker, I’d disagree, but at least a large portion of the playerbase, myself included, are trash with that weapon.
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Here are some recent matches. First image is a precision weapon, the rest are all autoguns. Note that I’m only showing matches where my ranged damage is a significant portion of the total, generally well over half. If this is not the case, it’s VERY easy to game this and hit a high weakspot rate. The point is that ranged weakspot rates are not high in this game if people aren’t gaming it to prove a point. A 60% weakspot rate on a precision build is of no value if you put out almost no damage with it. Might as well have just run a melee build at that point.
I’ve now provided infinitely more data than you have.
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