Thinking about "one" quintessential, flexible build for each class

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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Bruiser is non negotiable, consider those 2 set in stone.
I think the all-too-common mistake greener players make is “saving” the ults, made worse by not having the CDR nodes. You see this on vets, zealots and ogryns alike, re-active vs pro-active.

Not sure I follow, yes it’s applied by your melee, but the debuff is for all damage, and from everyone. It’s basically always kicking in unless you’re playing one of those ineffective backline kickback-only bunny-hopping ogryns (I hate them). Solo Breakpoints are great as a first thing to achieve, but you’re not playing solo and damage is always coming in from various sources and to multiple “non-main” targets being cleaved.

Yep, and very often recommended. And yeah don’t waste a blessing slot on Confident Strike, no needed since tree rework unless you’re gunlugger and missing nodes.

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FYI - I’ve updated the other classes a bit here and there, adding more text descriptions in the boxes below the skill tree.

So you know…whenever you all are done arguing about Ogryn’s you can go argue about the next class (my recommendation is vet).

:slight_smile:

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If you want to showcase something that exemplifies Vet and works with multiple weapons why go for a recon build?

Standard VoC+Tag can work with Plasma, Revolver, Laspistol, Bolt Pistol, and Bolter with very minimal adjustment and with several melee weapon based on preference. I think the “commander” playstyle is something that became the most basic/typical Veteran playstyle since patch 13.

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My main greviance against the skill is that while yes, all damage is amplified, realistically how much of that damage really matters? That 15% will likely not push you over threshold of killing something you will kill with another blow. You have Batter to make sure of that, notably - maybe it will not work well against a Crusher, but it sure as hel will bleed anything else to death eventually.

And no, I’m not considering teammates into the equation. You will be dealing damage alongside them, yes, but I really don’t feel like StU does contribute to these situations in a meaningful way - situations which are not boss fights, for instance. I’m not going to complain about a debuff that I have to take alongside the frag bomb, but in an instance I would hypothetically go for Bombs Away!, and had to pick and choose, I’d always go for Slam, because I would at least not have to worry about staggering Nurgle-blessed enemies (or any non-boss enemies for that matter - it’s much easier to knock off ragers off their combo of attacks with any weapon with this skill).

I’ll give StU credit on the fact that it probably works better with weapons that have an actual cleave, like Mk4 cleaver or the shield, but still, spreading that debuff is a very perfunctory role to fulfill, since it really doesn’t matter like 90% of the time.

Is it really non-negotiable? The comparison to other classes’ cooldown-reducing skills is fair, but one has to consider that

  1. Vet typically always goes for that ability, because middle bottom tree is fire and has many good skill nodes in it, and because their abilities always get a lot of value from shaving off 6s off the cooldown on each Special/elite kill made by them,
  2. Zealot can take a CD-reducing skill on the way to their better keystones, and doesn’t have to think much about the choice, because the choices opposing to the CD-reducing skills are typically not as valuable as the CD-reducing skill itself (I think Martyrdom is the only one that has a bad CD-reducing skill - particularly since it actually wants the opposing skill to get more wounds for their ability, and the Marty Zealot can branch out, but it costs a lot of points to get there).

All that meanwhile Ogryn can choose between good ability 1 (Bruiser) and good ability 2 (Payback Time). While Ogryn does want to take Bruiser to shave off 4 seconds off their massive PBB cooldown, Indomitable only benefits from having its CD reduced by 1.5s, soon-to-be 1.2s if we consider the impending nerf.

Don’t get me wrong, having more abilities over the course of the run is great, but Bruiser doesn’t do anything if you have your ability off-cooldown, whereas more Toughness or Payback Time almost always do something for you. This isn’t a binary comparison - the ability does compare to other qualities that are valuable to Ogryn and is a negotiable and potentially impactful decision with consequences, but over it I will basically always take Payback Time on Skullbreaker-type build, with Indomitable; if I have the option, because PT is more flexible than Bruiser and lets me benefit in other ways that Bruiser doesn’t (and taunting on pushes sometimes comes in handy, too, regardless).

Payback Time is a no-brainer in the build Mezmorki is trying to go for IMO, especially since it’s one point away. I’d still gladly move points away from Bruiser to get it, and a small Toughness node (should I want to leave Trample upgrade on, for instance).

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45

I like Payback Time just fine (triggers on blocks iirc), I’ve had it on and off instead of a side TDR node, and you already took Attention Seeker above it if Shield.

But Bruiser really is non-negotiable, the charge+modifiers is both a very, very strong defensive and offensive tool, like many ults (FoTF, Shouts).

The ability gives you: mobility+large quick repositioning, hard CC knock down (incl. bosses) and Skullcrusher, gain a dmg buff or apply bleeds, gain 25% attack speed for 5s, regen large toughness chunk quickly. It does so much and Bruiser is team-based and density based, the worse the situation the more it will be replenished as things die, and you’re spamming it at that point instead of “Oh i better save this”.
Bonus: That little “Get Stuck In” node also kicks in a lot more often and adds up as a bonus for the team, you clear a path and have team follow through, reposition avoid hits etc.

The best ogryns I see see are the ones meleeing and ulting the most, and Bruiser plays a huge, game-changing role there. When I see people not running the juicy CDR nodes I immediately assume they’re inexperienced, and thus far it’s ~always the case; it’s a self-nerf.

That CDR isn’t just triggering once, it’s triggering MANY TIMES, hence the nerf to 1.2s, it’s 1.5 x Many_Elite_Deaths* (*deaths on coherency ally kills too, not just kills by you).

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I would choose Bruiser over Payback Time(not like I can’t take two)
Mainly because it complements my playstyle greatly, I rush like a madman

And since we talked so much about these two, I will try to play without Bruiser to remember what it feels like, and take Payback Time, just to experience what it’s like

Holy wow, that is a very good saying, I am a fan of that

I agree, because I do that, but saying that it’s non-negotiable is too much. I would say, that Bruiser is really good, but if you know that you won’t be getting much out of it, either it be because of the Player or the Difficulty, I think that it’s fine to change things around.

I think that the build itself is complete and should stay as is, Payback Time could be taken by taking out the point from Brutish Momentum, but that’s a whatever

Good to hear all the opinions on my man Ogryn :pray:

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Admittedly this is dumb, but I’m working on the penance where you need 2,500 hundred kills at 10 stacks of marksman. Plasma seems to be the way to go it just cleaving into hordes sitting there barely moving like an idiot. Plasma is just fun (for me) and doesn’t really teach good play habits.

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I think Chaxe IV is dummy with martyrdom. Spam heavy is your solve all for anything squishier than a mauler, though even groups of maulers are dealt with fairly well by heavy spam.

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It’s not too much imo, bruiser makes probably the biggest impact on ogryin effectiveness off all the talent nodes. And not only that, it has consistent performance regardless of any weapon or build you use.

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Then don’t make the example build with plasma? Point was that standard VoC+Tag builds are pretty flexible, and standard. You can run whatever weapons with it with either no or 1-2 point adjustment and it will still work wonders.

The Recon is very strong but Recon builds want very specific things (even tho you went the more exotic infiltrate route) so you can’t really:

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This does have me rethinking the veteran approach…

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So… reviving this post a little now post update.

Any thoughts on builds that have changed?

I’m still torn on vet shout vs stealth. But leaning towards shout. More flexible and stronger for sure.

Maybe like this:

Regarding the new Psyker Talents - I don’t see

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Gah, tragically late to the party here but on an entirely Ogryn note I don’t feel the shield is “quintessential”, rather it’s a niche that fits a specific playstyle. I reckon you’re more likely to deter people who would rather play a big fighter than a tank — to me that’s the broad appeal of the bigman.

Let me instead make a case for the shovel… Specifically the Mk3 standard issue latrine wunderspade!

First off it’s relatively fast for an Oggie beat stick, which just helps across the board mechanically.

Second, it’s got the all-important one-two combo of vertical + horizontal. Now there are some out there who can’t get enough chained heavies, but in my opinion you can’t beat the ole up-down left-right for always providing the right tool for the job — plus imo it’s just more interesting. Learn that, and you’re well on your way to mastering any Ogryn weapon (probably the biggest pro for an intro guide).

Lastly, and I touched on this, but it’s more generic. See above discussion for specific must-have perks for shield users that don’t apply to the rest. Bring the spade, and all you need is the toughness perks up top. The rest is a firm understanding of the class particulars and your journey begins. Much easier to branch out into folding shovels, or try something slower with the pickaxes. Their movesets have a lot in common, particularly the Branx.

—————————————-

On a side note, the “No Pushover” talent (250% push power every 8s) is actually incredible. I’m a big fan of cc, and I think it’s one of the most important tools in the Ogryn kit. Watch this space!!

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Psyker - Duelling Swords/Fire Staff/Scrier’s

Ogryn - Pickaxe/Kickback/Bullrush

Zealot - Knife/Flamer|Bolter/Dash

Veteran - Plasma

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Uhh…missing out on a lot of important stuff
Try something like this for Recon:

I think DumDum is still better w/ infernus?

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I believe infernus and dumdum don’t interact anymore (ie infernus descent proc dumdum).

I’m going to experiment, but I’m thinking I drop infernus and maybe go headhunter + deathspitter. Reminder that deathspitter actually stacks up to five times, and its strength/power which is pretty good.

Edit - maybe dumdum is still the way to do looking at the numbers and what’s most flexible given the nature of the weapon.

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I think it’s technically supposed to be stronger than infernus, some trade-offs.
While infernus doesn’t proc dum itself, it still works for damage as b4 (?)

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Do you know what’s amazing about this crafting rework? I can swap the blessings around freely and try different mixes to see what works best!

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