The Problem with Unchained - And How to Fix It

Warhammer: Vermintide 2 Gameplay Feedback
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The Problem With Unchained - And How to Fix It

First of all: her Skills and Traits are absolutely fine. Up to 60% melee power is just crazy. An ability that causes an explosion and clears her Overcharge to prevent death is good because she gains it from getting hit, reducing damage to her health. And no Overcharge slowdown means she can run and hit as fast as a melee class should.

But the problem is: that’s all. Her talents are extremely weak at enhancing her melee power, with only one exception.

Long Story Short:

Unchained needs:

  • A reliable source of burning enemies, otherwise her burn-related talents are mostly useless.

  • A consistent way to deal with specials at medium range.

  • Talents like Pyromancer, which could prevent death from Overcharge, so she can fight at full power.

  • Options to ignite her weapon with enough Overcharge for talent synergy, even if the damage is low.

  • Or a talent that halves damage reduction from Blood Magic but removes Overcharge generation.

Utility talents are fine in theory, but they currently lack impact. But i also want the option to spec for damage output, not just utility.

And most importantly: her ability needs a shorter cooldown. It should deal more damage, have higher stagger power for monsters, and vent only part of her Overcharge so she can still benefit from it.

Short Story Long:

(I will not talk about Level 5 and 15 talents for obvious reasons.)

To read the full talents, see: Unchained - Vermintide 2 Wiki

Level 10

Frenzied Flame: Increases melee power further by giving 15% attack speed. Requires at least 50% Overcharge but that’s okay. It’s bearable.

Outburst: Weak DoT, only really worth using with “Enfeebling Flames.” Otherwise lacks horde/elite clearing potential; functions more as a defensive stance.

Chain Reaction: Useless without any source of fire except “Outburst” which is a same level talent. Deals no damage. Stagger would be valuable if not for the lack of burn sources.

Level 20

Dissipate: Best theoretical Overcharge vent, gives 50% Block Cost Reduction. Downsides: vents every time you block, reducing Overcharge needed for melee power.

Conduit: Good and simple venting. No issues.

Numb to Pain: A weird talent. Theoretically strong but very difficult to use. You have to gain Overcharge and must vent it 3 times in 15 seconds. For a melee class that wants to use its melee weapon most of the time, this talent makes it far more complicated to play. That’s why no one uses it.

Level 25

Enfeebling Flames: A very strong talent BUT useless because of the lack of burn sources, despite being a FIRE-mage melee class. The only good source is “Outburst”, and that talent is weak itself and should normally be avoided.

Abandon: I don’t really like this talent, but it’s the only way to reduce your long ability cooldown to save your ass when overcharged. But it removes a huge amount of health to do that, so it saves you from exploding but costs a lot of health… so you can die from any hit then. Doesn’t really change anything, I would say.

Natural Talent: Just weak. Nothing more to say.

Level 30

Fuel for the Fire: Theoretically strong but quite useless because of the high cooldown. Also, the other talents in this row are more important. Also, I don’t know how much 25% more power is needed if you already get up to 60% from “Unstable Strength”.

Wildfire: This talent makes the ability useful, but that’s the bad thing. It’s a shame that you need to waste the level 30 talent to make your ability - with the longest cooldown in the game - useful. And the fire aura deals incredibly low damage, but at least the aura sets enemies on fire for a long time. Also it increases the stagger power, so you can stagger monsters - something many other abilities can do without needing a talent.

Bomb Balm: Strong in theory, but again limited by cooldown.

So the key problems are:

  • She has no talents that increase her melee potential except “Frenzied Flame” (which is okay) or “Fuel for the Fire” (which should always be avoided because the other talents are more important, and is still quite useless because of the long cooldown).

  • She has no real burn sources for someone who has two theoretically good talents that need enemies on fire.

  • A few talents are odd, unusable, or outright useless.

  • Ability is weak: low damage, low stagger, clears Overcharge entirely, longest cooldown in the game.

  • Also there is another problem: the staffs. No staff can kill specials reliably. Most of the staffs have melee-focused attacks, and their light attacks do too little damage and are so inaccurate that you miss the specials most of the time - especially if you have to fight in melee at the same time. Only the Bolt Staff can kill a special, but only with “Enhanced Power”. Unchained lacks ways to deal with specials or maybe Sienna overall.

With the following changes, I wanted to achieve the following:

  • Increase talents enhancing melee potential.

  • Add more burn sources and higher burn damage overall.

  • Make her ability useful.

  • Small staff adjustments so she can deal with specials, across all Sienna careers.

  • Remove weak or useless talents.

  • Introduce three playstyles: physical melee fighter, fire melee fighter, utility/support tank.

Here is a suggestion for a rework to fix the problems:

(All damage numbers are from the wiki IF they are mentioned. If not, numbers come from the damage I deal to puppets with 650 hero power and without any level 15 talent.)

Sienna Staffs:

  • All burn effects last at least 3s.

  • Light attacks from Conflagration and Fireball Staff don’t get less precise after attacks, damage 24 → 30, cast time 0.75s → 0.50s, but generate 4 Overcharge instead of 2.5.

  • Bolt Staff’s charged shot deals 15% more damage, cast time 0.33s → 0.45s, its fly speed and effective range are increased by 15%, but it generates 10 Overcharge instead of 8.

(This should give Sienna overall - and especially Unchained - a better chance to deal with specials by providing more precise, faster, or stronger attacks, at the cost of generating more Overcharge. I intentionally did not strengthen her staffs through “Unstable Strength,” because that would make her ranged weapons the strongest among all her careers while using a melee career. This staff adjustment is meant to benefit every Sienna career equally.)

Living Bomb:

  • Cooldown 120s → 90s, increased stagger for monster, radius 5 → 6m.

  • Explosion burn damage 11.5 → 30 + 50 over 5s. Clears only 50% / 20 Overcharge.

(The fire damage should be calculated with your “Unstable Strength” BEFORE it gets cleared due Living Bomb.)

Unstable Strength:

  • Increased melee power on high Overcharge by up to 60%. → Increased melee power and all of her burn damage (excluding her staffs) on high Overcharge by up to 45%.

(I reduced it because her burn damage is now included and her burn damage overall is increased. Also she got some more talents for her melee potential.)

Overcharged Explosion:

  • Damage reduced from 25.5 → 20 but gets increased by “Unstable Strength” now.
  • I didnt find it anywhere but IF the radius is 5 meter, then: Radius 5 → 6 meter.

Level 10

Frenzied Flame: Increases attack speed by 15% while at or above 50%/20 Overcharge. → Increases attack speed by up to 20% while at or above 75% / 30 Overcharge.

(4% attack speed per 15% / 6 Overcharge. The attack speed is a bit higher because i reduced her “Unstable Strength” but it needs a higher Overcharge too.)

Outburst: Pushing an enemy ignites them, causing damage over time. Heavy attacks make the next push arc 70% wider. Burn damage increased from 12.75 over 6 seconds → 18 over 6 seconds.

(The burn damage is a bit higher and gets even higher with “Unstable Strength”.)

Scorching Weapons (new): While at or above 50% / 20 Overcharge, light attacks ignite for 3s, 10 burn damage/sec.

(A new talent because the old “Chain Reaction” is now in “Wildfire”. This new talent shall give Unchained the ability to ignite enemies without a staff, Living Bomb, or a push from “Outburst” from the same row. Also some good damage, because you lose the attack speed from “Frenzied Flame”.)

Level 20

Dissipate: Block cost is reduced by 50.0% when Overcharged and blocking attacks vent Overcharge. → Block cost is reduced by 50%. Blocking attacks vents Overcharge when at or above 37.5% / 15 Overcharge.

(This should fix the small “problem” that you could lose all your Overcharge when you have to block but want to fight back.)

Conduit: Increases the rate of venting Overcharge by 30% and reduces damage taken from venting by 50%. (No changes.)

Numb to Pain: Reduces damage taken by 5.0% and overcharge generated by Blood Magic by 16.6% for 15 seconds after venting. Stacks up to 3 times. → Reduces the damage reduction from “Blood Magic” to 35%, but no longer converts damage taken into Overcharge.

(The old Numb to Pain is nearly unplayable. It forces a melee class to pull out the staff every ~10 seconds to gain Overcharge and vent it for a 15-second buff. The buff is strong - nothing bad to say about that - but it disrupts the gameplay heavily. Thats why nobody played it. This new talent is far less complicated.)

Level 25

Enfeebling Flames: Burning enemies deal 30% less damage. (No changes.)

Abandon: During overcharge, Sienna expends health to increase ability cooldown rate.

(Health-to-cooldown-reduction 10 / 0.5 for 10% cooldown per 0.25 seconds → 12.5 / 0.5 for 15% cooldown per 0.25 seconds. Means 50% more cooldown reduction but at possible 25% higher costs. For 60% cooldown reduction for example you had to change 30 health for that. That was a bit too much. I reduced it to 25. Not because it was THAT much, just because when you have both grims, therefore lower max health, then gets hit by enemies on Legend, your health get lower and then you need to trade even more health for cooldown reduction. You are literally dead then, even if not from exloding.)

Fire Engine (new): “Unstable Strength” now goes up to 60%. But “Unstable Strength” doesn’t increase your burn damage anymore.

(I increased her overall physical potential and burn damage, and let it benefit from “Unstable Strength” but reduced it to 45% for balance. With this talent, you get back the lost 15% but deals no longer increased burn damage.)

Level 30

Fuel for the Fire: Each enemy hit by Living Bomb increases power by 5.0% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. → Living Bomb no longer clears Overcharge. Attacks cannot be interrupted for 8s. Cannot explode due Overcharged during this time. Each hit during effect reduces Overcharge by 20% / 8 after effect ends to cancel the explosion.

(This effect makes her the unstoppable(or in other words, she cant get staggered or pushed back but still grabbed from Chaos Spawn for example) melee class she supposed to be because she can attack freely and with full potential but clear easily all the Overcharge after the time to add a downtime after this rage. But she can still die when health goes to 0.)

Wildfire: Living Bomb grants Sienna a scorching aura that ignites nearby enemies for 10 seconds, causing damage over time. Increases the stagger power of Living Bomb. → Living Bomb’s initial stagger power is reduced. Its explosion changes to a fire aura for 10 seconds in an 6-meter radius. Enemies who die while burning from Sienna explode in a 3-meter radius, dealing fire damage and staggering enemies.

(It sacrifices the new stagger power and the initial explosion to get moderate stagger(which should stagger up to elites) - like it is now - a strong fire aura, and the effect of the old level 10 “Chain Reaction” talent. The burn must come from Sienna now, but her damage doesn’t need the last hit. Damage type changed from “Pure Damage” to full fire damage so it benefits from “Unstable Strength”, but not melee power (which would increase the stagger power again) - just increased fire damage. Damage per tick increased from 2 per 0.5 seconds for 10 seconds → 2.5 per 0.25 seconds for 10 seconds. Fire damage from the smaller explosions is 3. So a total damage change from 75.75 (10.75 initial damage plus 40 pure damage and 25 burn aura over 10 seconds) → 130 (100 in 10 seconds plus 3*10 small explosions). This change should make this talent a valuable damage option to be the fire force she suppose to be while not being hard-focused on melee attacks themselves - just some Overcharge. The fire damage of the fire aura should be calculated with your “Unstable Strength” BEFORE it gets cleared due Living Bomb. The damage of the small explosions shall always be the same.)

Bomb Balm: Living Bomb restores 30 temporary health to allies. → Living Bomb restores 30 temporary health to allies within a 12-meter radius. Clears all Overcharge now. When used while exploding, it changes the restored health to 10 permanent and 20 temporary health to allies.

(Some permanent health instead of THP when used while exploding. Especially good when using “Abandon”, because it consumes health - even permanent health - to get your ability. Theoretically, with “Abandon”, you could abuse this effect to give your allies and yourself more and more permanent health, but I increased the health costs of “Abandon” too, so it’s a bad deal to do that. I just made this change so IF you really had to consume your health to save yourself from exploding due to “Abandon”, or you just got too many hits from enemies and therefore too much Overcharge due “Blood Magic”, you should get some permanent health back. At least it’s a level 30 talent though.)

Last Words

I know no dev team would change a class just because one random person said so, and even more so based on how he suggested it. I just hope I was able to show that Unchained is indeed underperforming, has some strange talents, and offer some suggestions for how she could be improved. I am a Necromancer Main, and only for one reason: Unchained is severely underperforming. I am literally the kind of person who loves a strong bruiser, especially when it comes with fire. But Unchained? No… just not the way she currently is. She has some horde-clearing power and a little against elites. But monsters? Forget it. Specials? Nope. Chaos Warriors? Maybe, but there are better careers for that. All thanks to some weird talents, a weak ability, and zero reliable fire sources. I designed at least two playable builds for her to handle all of that: a physical bruiser and a fire-focused fighter. Also, a utility/support tank, but fair enough: a tank doesn’t exactly deal much damage.

PS: And I also experimented a bit with the visualization, hoping it would make the text a bit easier to read.

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Currently, Melee power level can go to 125% (60% passive, +potential 25% for fuel for the fire + 7.5% for enhanced power) throw in attack speed buff at frenzied flame and Unchained can pump out some DPS to rival zealot and merc and is definitely viable melee at Cata+ and it could be argued she has a higher potential for staying in the fight. I’m against buffing her melee as once you add in the flail or Scythe she’s THP gold too. Even with Crowbill she’s very good at taking down armoured elites. And as for fuel for the fire… I use abandon and often treat HP pots as proxy-purple meaning I can fire it off far more often. Buffing melee is a no from me.

I agree with you that Chain Reaction is virtually pointless, even with something like fireball spam or flamestaff it still isn’t impactful enough. This has been the case for a while.

Enfeebling flames can be useful but it is far more weapon-reliant, rather than relying on other talents. I don’t use it but can see the value for those that do. I’d rather use abandon to increase the potential for Living Bomb.

I think the changes you suggest to staves and burn damage all begin to overlap too much with her other careers and you might end up with OE and SOTT type master-of-everything style character. A bad thing.

I think the 2 talents need looking at are Chain reaction and numb to pain.

I’d change chain reaction to a far larger stagger on ranged weapons only, so there’s a chance a ranged firebolt would stagger or knock over a gunner/flamerat and stagger a CW in the same manner as the OE heavy damage vs armoured talent for his crank gun. This solves the problem of not dealing with specials without making her a special sniper-killer.

And numb to pain seems too clunky to use for little perceived benefit. Don’t know what goes in there though without it being quite a niche thing. Extra large radius for bombs? Bombs are always fire bombs no matter what the type? ALT fire produces a fire shield to defend against specials that is lost once she attacks? This is definitely a wasted slot.

Currently I think Sienna Unchained is high A+ tier, not S Tier but definitely a good melee fighter and in skilled hands can pile on the melee damage and this is what - I think - this class is built for. Viable at CATA+ and FOW without being insane so only minor tweaks to the 2 talents mentioned are my personal changes.

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I see your point about the theoretical melee-power ceiling on Unchained — but that number alone doesn’t prove she’s viable in real, high-stress situations. The problem isn’t the “burst moment,” it’s the consistency, flexibility and reliability of her kit.

You say she can hit 125% melee power with Fuel for the Fire + Enhanced Power + Frenzied Flame.
True — but only momentarily, and under ideal conditions. That means:

  • She needs to wait for the long cooldown of Fuel — ~90–120 s (or more on Chaos Wastes / high-OC fights).

  • She needs enough Overcharge and to survive long enough to trigger it.

  • She gives up reliable ranged tools or utility in that window.

  • Once it’s over — she’s back to base or worse, because her kit doesn’t scale by default.

That isn’t “reliable melee” — that’s a gamble. A gamble you might lose the moment mobs hit you in the wrong order, or a special spawns, or you get staggered.

Also: calling Flamestaff / Scythe / Flail “good” doesn’t remove the fact that Unchained’s talents, passive scaling and flexibility are far weaker than those of other careers that shine in melee, ranged or hybrid roles.
If your build depends on perfect conditions, you’re carrying the class — not the other way around.

You mention using Abandon + HP-pots as a workaround. That’s fine for solo-tryhard or speed-running, but that’s not “balanced design”. That’s “exploit workaround”. A class shouldn’t rely on HP-pots or perfect cooldown-management to be viable.

Your proposed buffs to ranged weapons, or to Chain Reaction (stagger on ranged only) … you admit yourself that that turns the only melee-focused Sienna career into a hybrid ranged-mage. That changes the identity of the class — while still not fixing the reason why Unchained fails in many high-tier scenarios: lack of dependable damage output and utility under pressure.

You say Unchained is “A+ tier if skillful.” Maybe in rare runs.
For everyday Legend / Cata+, with random teammates, specials, random spawns — she’s unreliable. A class with high skill floor but low floor of survivability — that’s not good design.

So yes — she can perform bursts of melee power. But she absolutely lacks the toolkit to make that consistent, especially under pressure.

If Fatshark ever buffs her:

  • Make melee-power scaling baseline, not burst-only

  • Give her more reliable fire sources and ranged tools

  • Make her utility or survival more dependable (not HP-pot reliant)

  • Balance Overcharge risk vs reward more cleanly

Until then: she’s not A+, she’s an inconsistent gamble.

Let’s stay real — skill doesn’t fix bad design.

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Unchained has a high skill ceiling, but once mastered it delivers damage on par with Sienna’s other careers. Many talents in the game are underwhelming or rarely used, and Unchained fits that pattern; Numb to Pain is bad, Chain Reaction is fun but weak. As you said, the real strength of the career comes from its innate perks rather than its talent rows.

Despite claims that Unchained is unreliable, she’s actually very dependable once you learn to manage the heat bar. Most players who struggle with Unchained, and with Pyromancer, just can’t keep their overcharge high. With practice, it’s solid enough that even bots work well with Unchained. You just want to stay roughly at 80%.

I use Dissipate to great effect. One swing from a monster, and then I can spam my staff back to full overcharge. I don’t think this talent needs a rework.

Wildfire is very potent, even for what you’re sacrificing. I’ve taken out whole rat patrols with this one on Cata.

The career excels at both tanking and dealing damage, but like most careers, it still has a few dead talents. Unchained doesn’t really need buffs; a few reworks could improve things. Chain Reaction and Numb to Pain are the only talents that need a buff. Numb to pain needs a full rework.

There are quite a few builds that work with Unchained.

Here’s my favorite build if you want to try it out.

The Power vs. Chaos and Infantry on both the Coruscation Staff and the Charm combined with Enfeebling Flames and Chain Reaction make for a potent DoT. On this build, I find Chain Reaction works pretty good. Alternatively, you can use Beam Staff right-click spam or Fireball to keep enemies burning, because you might need to shoot, otherwise you’re super vulnerable to gun rats, and fire rats.

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I see what you mean, and yes, it’s true: a skilled player can make Unchained very effective. If you manage Overcharge perfectly, you can get a lot out of her.

But that’s exactly my point: the class is strong only in the hands of someone who masters it perfectly. That makes her underperforming for most players and very frustrating to play. Many of her talents, like Numb to Pain or Chain Reaction, are either too complicated or simply useless if you don’t time everything exactly. The “innate perks” help, but that alone doesn’t make for a consistently fun or reliable career in all situations.

Dissipate and Wildfire can be strong, that’s true. But to use those talents optimally, you need extreme precision, otherwise she quickly becomes weak against Specials or Chaos Warriors. That’s exactly what my suggestions aim to address: a small improvement to talents and burn sources so the class isn’t completely reliant on perfection, and normal players can still succeed.

I agree she doesn’t need general buffs, but a bit of QoL on talents like Numb to Pain and Chain Reaction would make Unchained more accessible without lowering the skill ceiling.

Your build looks solid, I can see that, and yes, clever staff management can fix a lot. My focus is more on making the talents and mechanics more consistent and reliable overall, especially for solo players or anyone who wants to have fun without memorizing every mechanic.

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But most importantly, everything you just said comes down to: Skill Issue. And I’ll say it again: “Let’s stay real — skill alone doesn’t fix bad design."

I also notice that you’re both not really addressing anything concrete — neither my critique of the current state nor the rework suggestions — it basically comes down to saying ‘Skill Issue’.

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Unchained’s entire “strength” comes almost only from two numbers:
60% bonus power from high overcharge and 15% attack speed from Frenzied Flame.
That’s it.
Everything else — her ability, her burn sources, her utility talents, all the clunky or useless picks — barely adds anything meaningful.

So in reality she isn’t strong because her kit is well-designed, she’s “strong” only because raw stat inflation carries her, and that’s exactly the problem.

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Not at all. Not every career is going to be as easy to master. The main challenge with Unchained comes from managing the heat bar because it can kill you. If you do well with that, she becomes both a tank, and heavy DPS career.

Her innate perks may be the main source of her power, literally, but that’s a bit extreme to say they’re all useless or barely add anything. Bomb Balm, Wildfire, Abandon, Enfeebling Flames, Chain Reaction, Outburst, Dissipate and Conduit all change the play-style, they’re all good.

You do have a point though, Fuel for the Fire is boring, Natural Talent is a bit weak Numb to Pain needs a rework. Chain Reaction needs a little buff. Beyond that, they do all compliment different playstyles. Some more defensive, some more burn focused, and some more weapon focused.

The DoT itself on Unchained scales with Power, her DoT is pretty good. Using the Flame Sword, block cancel heavy 1; Fireball, Beam, and Coruscation on any career allow you to apply DoT quite regularly. You use any one of these weapons, applying DoT is no issue. Her talents allow her to vent all day.

Having seen how Fatshark “balances” things, it’s a monkey paw wish if I’ve ever seen one to do a major rework of a career like Unchained. At this point we should maybe fix a few talents here, tweak a few numbers there, no major career overhauls.

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So what should we do then? Just do nothing? I at least want to try to convince them to take action. I don’t know what they did that makes you think their balancing is worse than my attempt, but if we stick together and clearly point out the issues to the dev team, maybe they’ll actually do something useful. But if we start tearing ourselves apart over what’s wrong with a class, they’ll just think we don’t even know what we’re talking about, and they’ll do nothing. Just because extreme skill or hardcore micromanaging—while avoiding obviously useless talents—can make an underperforming class work, doesn’t mean it should stay that way. We should stand together and clearly point out what’s wrong so they have to actually address it, or at least something close to what we suggest. After all, the majority of players who actively play the game—and the class—are the ones who really know what’s broken. I at least tried to point out the problems and provide my own thoughts, aiming to create valuable, consistent, and logically sound suggestions for changes. My goal isn’t to force them to do exactly what I want, but to highlight what’s wrong and explain why, so they can understand and hopefully fix it. And don’t get me wrong—if I’m wrong somewhere, just say it clearly. But mostly all I’ve heard from you and the other guy is just: “Skill issue,” even though you admit that most of my points are actually valid. So instead of downplaying my critique, help me try to convince Fatshark to actually do something about it. I just want to make Unchained more enjoyable and less frustrating due to her illogical talents and design. I’m not trying to make her godlike so everyone can just run around and crush everything. I tried to suggest a balanced improvement, and maybe I didn’t get it perfectly right—but at least I made an effort and offered something concrete.

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Fun fact about Fuel to the Fire. It increases the power of the Ult itself letting you hit unique stagger breakpoints with it. If you wanna play hybrid ranged + melee I find it to be the best option.

I don’t have anything to add to the thread otherwise, I think Unchained is fine, being a surprisingly versatile hybrid fighter with team utility options if you want them. There’s already a heavy emphasis on burns on other Sienna classes, I don’t think Unchained needs to go in that direction as well.

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A lot of your ideas for reworking various talents aren’t necessary. Just focus on the few that could use tweaking. Almost every career has a few talents that could use tweaking.

Take it slower. Nobody ever goes into a forum with a full rework of anything in a game and has people jumping in to support them.

This is just not true at all. Most avid Sienna players I’ve seen do enjoy Unchained. There’s a lot of people who don’t like how the taking damage feels on on Unchained, so they may not choose to play Unchained as much, but I think I’ve probably played Unchained and Pyromancer for several hundred hours each, and I’m not saying “skill issue”. It’s a different play-style, and it’s more challenging.

Pyromancer got a rework despite some pushback, a lot of disagreement, and overall, every talent on Pyromancer’s skill tree is useful. Most of Unchained’s talents are good. I mentioned the 4 talents I wouldn’t mind seeing tweaked. The reason it worked I think is because the discussion primarily focused on the few talents that players never used, and how the career played vs. how it was intended to play.

Besides the four talents I mentioned, IMO, Unchained is great. Not every career has to be as accessible, and I think the main challenge comes from balancing the heat bar. It’s a high risk/reward career that can be a high damage tank if you manage it. At the very least, if you’re not letting yourself blow up, you should be very tanky as Unchained.

I think the career plays as intended. A mighty tank and great damage if you can manage the heat bar.

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“This is just not true at all. Most avid Sienna players I’ve seen do enjoy Unchained. There’s a lot of people who don’t like how the taking damage feels on on Unchained, so they may not choose to play Unchained as much, but I think I’ve probably played Unchained and Pyromancer for several hundred hours each, and I’m not saying “skill issue”. It’s a different play-style, and it’s more challenging.

Pyromancer got a rework despite some pushback, a lot of disagreement, and overall, every talent on Pyromancer’s skill tree is useful. Most of Unchained’s talents are good. I mentioned the 4 talents I wouldn’t mind seeing tweaked. The reason it worked I think is because the discussion primarily focused on the few talents that players never used, and how the career played vs. how it was intended to play.”

I’m starting to feel like the discussion keeps drifting away from the actual topic. Instead of addressing my specific criticism of Unchained, the conversation turns to Pyromancer or points out that not all talents I lightly criticized are completely useless. Rather than acknowledging the real issues, strawmen are being created or the main topic is ignored. Sure, some players might handle the class better – fine, if they’re okay just smashing everything with more power. But that doesn’t fix the design flaws or invalidate my critique. I’m getting tired of going in circles like this. And I’m not talking about “different playstyles” or “challenging builds.” I’m talking about talents that are clearly broken and need fixing. You can ignore all the minor points I’ve raised—I don’t care about those. But there are real, undeniable issues, and that’s exactly why I’m here. If you’re not willing to acknowledge and help address the things you admit are broken, then stop wasting time on pointless arguments.

”Besides the four talents I mentioned, IMO, Unchained is great.” Yes, I may have critiqued nearly every talent, but that doesn’t mean everything is equally important. I clearly pointed out which talents are highly useless and need to be changed—and you even confirmed that. And then to say, “Besides the obviously useless talents, the class works”? What the hell is that? If something is going wrong, say it clearly to the devs. No more, no less.

”and I think the main challenge comes from balancing the heat bar.” Yes, that could be a problem. I don’t personally feel it as much, but I accept the point. If you think it’s a major issue for this class, then we should make sure the devs hear it.

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A few dead talents don’t kill the career.

What do you think is “broken”? One talent at a time or perk at a time.

You could honestly make a whole topic about just 3 or 4 talents. If you post a whole career rework for a game this late in it’s lifecycle, nah man; and in this case, there’s a lot of love for Unchained as is; even if the forums aren’t buzzing like they used to.

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Well, no— and i literally never said that. The title itself only states “The Problem with Unchained” and not “Unchained, a dead career” but besides that I can still try to get them fixed, can’t I? You seem to have already given up fighting for what’s right. And maybe I came to the game a bit late, but I don’t quit just because it seems nearly impossible to get something done. I did a full review and rework to show that I’m not some random maniac who just skipped the manual. And if that’s all you have to say, then this conversation ends here. If you can accept that Unchained has its problems, fine—deal with it. I’m not going to accept that so easily after just one try.

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I’m just asking for a more focused discussion.

If you start by answering this question, we can discuss further.

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The conversation about unchained that you opened with feel too broad, and largely been rebuffed by experienced players pointing out that it’s really two/three/four talents that need a rework. There is no “problem with unchained” that isn’t very similar to other classes “problems” - i.e. a couple of talents need reworking. HS has same, RV has same, OE needs reigning in a bit, and so on, so there is no big problem with Unchained and I agree with Ensrick, she feels great and is good reckless fun to play.

Increasing her burn damage overlaps with BW, and increasing her ranged damage to deal with specials will overlap with Pyro too much. Unchained has her distinct spot in the roster and I like it.

I’m happy to discuss *Chain Reaction* and *Numb to Pain* but discussions about Ults and weapons and so on is likely going to fall on deaf ears I’m afraid. It’s too late in the game cycle for full reworks of Classes. I hope for a minor balance pass just for talents at the same time FS release the craftable deeds (cough cough) but we shall see.

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Hey Orillien, I actually work on Darktide primarily, so @FatsharkQuickpaw is best suited for this. He is particularly busy at the moment so I can’t promise he’ll reply, but please know that we do read our players’ perspectives.

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Apologies for tagging you by mistake. I thought you were involved with Vermintide. Didn’t mean to bother you.

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@FatsharkQuickpaw Hello there. I would really appreciate it if one of the devs could take a moment to read my post about Unchained. I tried to clearly outline her main issues, plus a few minor ones, and I also proposed adjustments that would give her three distinct and functional playstyles: a pure melee fighter, a fire/burn focused fighter, and a utility oriented tank.
A short response from the team would be very welcome, just to know the feedback has been seen.

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As an Unchained main i virtually never use her ability at all - and i advice new players to do the same. Only as a panic button for overheating. Staying at high heat is way more beneficial than the damage from her ability with the potential risk of exploding during its cooldown (especially at high difficulties).

That’s also the reason why i rarely pick her in chaos wastes because so many boons are ability-related which i can not utilize.

I would gladly see a change here. Maybe something like: Cooldown is shorter; Overcharge explosion immunity for 12 seconds; Heat is no longer drained (maybe modified through a talent); No longer deals damage, but knocks back everything around - more heat leads to more stagger (basically a combination of Battle Wizards ‘Kaboom’ and Pyromancers ‘Dissipating Rictus’).
I’m unsure about the ‘Can be used to prevent exploding during overheat’ thing… because as long as it stays an out-of-jail card it is incentivized to hold on to it in case you need it (maybe add that feature as a talent… but that might be an ‘always-pick’ talent).

Edit: Maybe a talent that says: Overheating triggers your ability. The explosion will get you wounded but you won’t enter downstate if you survive.

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