Then I am sorry for spreading misinformation
1 Like
Let me know how well having krak grenades works out when you’re boxed in by a horde just a bit too large to kite around. Oh right, not well at all thanks to a small blast radius. Bet you wished you had those “useless” shredders then. Almost as if krak grenades and shredders are two totally different weapons tailored to deal with two very different types of targets in very different situations.
Its really simple silly. You either pick the grenade that best augments your primary & secondary weapons, or you take the primary & second that best complement your choice of grenade. So say a shovel and las gun? You’re damn right I’m going to put kraks in there to deal with the inevitable crusher/ mauler/ whatever that won’t die. Plasma gun and dueling sword? Forget it - shredders are going into that spot no matter what so I don’t get bent over by a horde. People that take a DS, plasma gun, and kraks are why the phrase “over specialization breeds exitinction” was coined. Maybe good in a dedicated 4-man with others dedicated to clearing hordes etc, but not good for normal games.
3 Likes
chain axe is one of veteran’s best anti carapace weapons, i think it was just a bad example
Caxe is short for combat axe, for chain axe it’s usually shortened to chaxe.
I’ll admit I was going off assumption when I included those 2. Before this update Caxe felt just on the verge of OK in TTK on crushers so I’m assuming it’s feeling noticeably worse with the HP changes, though maybe I’m under rating the impact of player buffs. It’s probably fine in a fairly melee heavy spec, I’m struggling to imagine you’d want to rely on it as your main/only anti carapace option otherwise?
Taxe I admit I’ve used very little, they seemed pretty poor on crushers pre patch so again assuming trying to fight a group of them with it now is pretty rough. Happy to be enlightened if I’m wrong on that. Got any footage of killing a group of crushers with Taxe since update?
3 Likes
I’m getting one shots in the psykhanium without tinkerer. Can’t remember if they count as ranged because I’m wondering if it was because I was testing with a build that had a shedload of ranged damage increases as well as a 10% rending talent and 20% vs ogryns.
1 Like
May very well be that other damage bonuses apply too to hit that breakpoint. Though I won’t be online again until later today
1 Like
This works on all damage IIRC, even grenades and DoT, so yeah
General damage increases do work on the krak grenade and you can oneshot crushers using other talents such as
These talents
Superiority Complex (15 vs Elites)
Bring It Down! (20% vs Ogryn/Bosses)
Exploit Weakness (20% after melee crit)
Infiltrate (30% after stealth)
Fire Team (5%)
Close Quarters Killzone (15% after ability)
Skirmisher (6.25% per stack after sprinting, max 4 stacks)
Focus Target (5% per stack on tag, max 6 stacks)
Redirect Fire! (2% per stack on Focus Target death, max 6 stacks)
You need at least a 36% general damage increase to oneshot Auric Crushers. For Havoc 39+ you need at least 104% so you need Grenade Tinkerer for Havoc but not necessarily for Auric.
Only general damage increases work, it’s not affected by melee or ranged damage increases.
3 Likes
“This always Kraks me up” - Veteran, probably
3 Likes
‘You either get busy dying or you get Krakin’ there is definitely room for a pun-pack for Loose Cannon and all the Veteran functions.
3 Likes
Ah, thankyou. In that case I think the combat axe is absolutely awesome for horde clear, even with the brittleness blessing for armor damage. Which makes it great for veteran because of base damage and other damage buffs.
Taxe is absolutely amazing S tier on zealot with crit. You can rush a group of crushers and still easily come out on top, and very quickly too, even with crit + unyielding on it instead of carapace.
Once again I’ll have to say that’s not my experience fighting crushers with those weapons (in particular groups of crushers). Taxe in particular I’d love to see any footage of someone fighting a group of crushers effectively with it.
Dont get me wrong, im not saying combat axe on vet is amazing for crushers, because I think the chain axe is straight better in almost every regard, but it is viable.
Krak finally gets a buff and you’re complaining about it? Jesus Christ yall ridiculous. Do you just want nothing to deal with crushers? Does that work better for you? Oh no you aren’t forced to put carapace into your build um sorry for having build variety? Sorry for not forcing the stigma of “only put carapace damage or the weapons trash”
1 Like
Let’s be level headed here, I haven’t seen either side get terribly hyperbolic nor nasty. If you look at my first post in this thread you’ll see I agree allowing build diversity is a plus, and there’s been no real pushback to this.
On the other hand if a tool solves a problem too well for your whole team without much investment it can also become a problem. I’m not saying Krak necessarily fits that description, it’s still a bit early to say, but we can surely all recognise there’s at least some reasonable points made that kraks do too much for too little cost now.
There’s also Havoc vs Auric to consider here. A tool that feels reasonable in Havoc might borderline functionally remove an otherwise threatening enemy type in Auric. I don’t really know how you balance this mind you, but which game mode you prefer will likely colour your impression of how strong kraks are now.
2 Likes
I think this is pretty much it.
Kraks aren’t ridiculous because huge masses of crushers and maulers can overwhelm the number of grenades you have, and while they do good boss damage at the moment, they are awful against captains and multiple bosses.
They feel awful to have on your team because the number of crushers is lower in a lot of modifiers. The moment you go melee elite no ammo auric maelstroms you’ll see how limited they really are still.
1 Like
The answer is enemy should have more mechanics, and there should be more enemy types. If they will increase armor/elite HP they will end up slaping rend on every weapon, homogenizing everything and killin any weapon identity.
Add plaguebearers with regeneration ability (and give it to all infected maybe), make burn effect stops regeneration, nerf infinite cleave on flamers, buff other and add more source of applying burn, including melee.
Congrats, you have a whole new specialization for builds. Infected should be as treatening as armored, but in another way. Dying from swarms of poxwalkers should be as possible just as dying from crusher’s overhead. Same goes with other types of enemies.
I will repeat it over and over on this forum, nothing will change fundamentaly till FS change outdated 2010 year enemy design. Players are playing modern FPS with slides and vaulting, enemies are playing Serious Sam or smthg.
Decreasing the ammount of tax nodes was a mistake imo. Tax nodes exist to prolongue pathway to the meaningfull nodes. So you can’t end up being heavy weapon specialist+agile support+grenadier.
The “bloated vet tree” problem wasn’t rly cause of tax nodes, it’s cause non-tax nodes are not that strong and split into cluster of trash nodes you need to pick 5 of them. If you picked several +stat nodes your next one should worth that cost. But in many cases they don’t.
Tax nodes themselves were trash, like +1 stamina. Why it’s not +x% recoil +y% spread reduction on the same node? And several of them leading towards sharpshooter cluster. Or three nodes of +2% crit chance and attack speed leading towards crit cluster in zealot tree. The whole thing we call those nodes as “tax” ones is a marker they are trash. And should be buffed but kept as a segregation tool for the clusters of strong build identity nodes.
If you want to build a grenadier and spam nades - ok, but don’t expect you will also be able to run and gun like a frontliner. Having lots of builds isn’t the same as having lots of builds being capable to deal with anything.
There always should be some restrictions and tradeoffs - weapon weight, loadout points, tax nodes, stats requirements, etc. Trees are now more agile and allow more freedom, but they are also allow you to be “jack of all trades good at everything” even more. And so there is less room for mistakes, and so the game struggles to kill players in any way but spawn 40 000 specialists or armored enemies.
So called “range” veteran with plasma or bolter can lock ranged enemies in melee just as easy as zealot with charge or invis leads to the situation there are no actual builds. You just pick the best damage, CDR, damage reduction and anti armor, there is no choice, you are forced to think how to built your character against the only one important treat, rather then how to built against a specific thing you choose by your own.
This topic was automatically closed 14 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.