Instant stagger on everything, or continuous stagger for like +5 full seconds in case of Chorus
And they’d still give gold toughness as always
Gold Toughness would still allow you to tank more gunner shots, to prevent ragers from bleeding through your hp via their double attack on 1 swing, still allow you to tank more hits from groaners before losing HP
Are you really telling VoC and Chorus are only good if it can prevent things that should hit your HP even if you have full toughness?
“Gold Toughness” Abilities should probably give Players TDR instead, to be honest.
It’s true that players now have plenty of ways to quickly restore depleted Toughness, and the system that nullifies one-hit-kill attacks like overheads is simply unacceptable. However, I believe that the Gold Toughness “overcap” mechanic is no longer necessary at all.
If Fatshark revamped all the recent skill trees specifically to remove Gold Toughness and instead give players more ways to increase and recover their Toughness, I’d applaud that decision — but will that really be the case, I wonder…
Which is why I hope that if they make any further changes to enemies, they will also do something to make weapons struggling with Carapace become more viable.
Alone, they might not be, but together, they very much are. Unless you are a DT veteran with 8000 hours in the game, you will not find it easy to deal with a whole Tide of enemies in Auric Maelstorm or Havoc.
These kinds of behaviors will never be implemented into the current enemies of DT. FatShark never did such changes and I doubt they will ever do so in the future. Increasing enemy’s HP to reduce their spawn numbers is, in my opinion, by far the best solution FatShark can do, since they will not give them new attack patters or changes to how their AI operates.
So, what you’re basically are saying is that the solution I’m presenting is bad because players will continue to exploit enemies weaknesses. Okay? You’re talking about something that will always happen regardless if enemy spam exists or not.
Let me ask you this: Since as far as we know, FatShark will not change the behavior of enemies what is better?
If you ask me, if we can’t get the changes to enemy’s AI, I would much prefer for enemies to have their spawns reduced by increasing their HP instead of letting the spawn rates stay the way they currently are.
Increasing enemies HP may be not a good solution. It is simply the best option available, as far as we know.
Yeah, you’ve convinced me. Golden Toughness needs to go and be replaced by something enemies have a chance against.
I’ve just never understood how this:
Translates to “you can eat overheads and snipers and poxbursters etc.” in practice?
And then on top of that, while within the time frame of the buff(s), you can also regenerate the gold toughness through your normal toughness replenishment triggers including those extra unlisted effects? what?
On paper, having an ability give you a temporary buff to your max toughness seems pretty fine, but why does it also do all that???
Where exactly does it even remotely say what it actually does fully lmao
Absolutely baffling decisions.
They should change some toughness refill from instant gains towards regeneration type. Like why both Chorus and VoC refill toughness in chunks. Make Chorus grants boosted toughness regeneration.
So the “toguhness regeneration speed” stat will have its place in building your survivability.
Or VoC refill blue toughness and increase toughness gain on kills, rewarding players for being aggressive, rather than just providing unconditional energy shield on top.
The same thing with stagger, change some stuff like Smite for example to decrease enemy movespeed and/or attack speed.
Or add some sort of status bar for enemies, so it starts as movespeed reduction and when you fill that status bar it causes one time stagger, then you need to fill status bar again.
FS for some reason doesn’t have a weaker one subtype for mechanics and just goes extreme, you either have no control or you stagger almost everything with barely any effort.
Again, missing the point.
These are abilities. On a cooldown. They are SUPPOSED to give the characters a brief opportunity to do things that normally they could not do. Then the player has to wait, and hope they don’t need that ability again, for the ability to come off cooldown. Nothing in them is - ironically - unbalanced. Nor is the concept of cooldown reduction itself broken. Plenty of games have both of these and done just fine with them.
What IS broken is that Fatshark, being certifable lazy egomaniacs, decided to A) crank up elite & specialist spam as the sole source of “difficulty” and B) tie so many things (cooldown reduction, ammo regen, stamina regen, etc) to killing… elites and specialists. See the issue? Higher difficulties result in a higher percentage of enemies that when kill reduce the cooldown of abilities whose entire purpose is to increase durability of the players, which then means they can kill more of those same enemies, reducing the cooldown again etc. Its called a feedback loop and its one of the quickest ways break anything in a game.
Fix the spam of elites & specials and the (reasonable and logically) problems people have with the abilities goes away. Nerf those abilities based on some twats fantasy of how Havoc 40 should play and you break them to the point of being worthless outside of those hyper-specialized parameters.
You people need to learn that your knee-jerk “nerf this buff that” idiocy that only cares about your immediate feelings without looking at root causes is as bad or worse than Fatshark’s documented mule headed refusal to address problems.
No idea why you’ve replied to me specifically, seeing as I’m mainly pointing out the absurdity of FatShark’s classic certified brand of incompetence when it comes to actually explaining what something does, nevermind how those bonus secret effects actually interact with the game systems… you know, stuff the prospective user should be aware of?
Please no. The game has enough bullet sponges already.
Yes I was refering to you, because you missed the whole point of the thread. Badly. You went right to blaming the abilities themselves. Utterly missing the whole point I made at the start. The abilities themselves are not bad, its the idiocy of elite & specialist spam that is at the root of the problem. Fix that and the serious complaints - instead of the “WHAA! HE’S BETTER AT X THAN ME! NERF NERF!” ones - go away. Because you can’t spam something if there aren’t enough elites & specialists to reduce a 30 to 45 second cooldown to more like 5 to 10 seconds. And if you can’t spam either Voice or Chorus then you don’t really have constant access to extra toughness without a whole lot of shenagians involving stacking multiples of specific classes & builds. No constant access then the extra isn’t really that big since it will be gone at the first overhead hit.
So again, remove this constant spam of “special” mobs and the problems with Voice & Chorus go away as well. Along with a whole lot of other problems related to Orgyn and Zealots abilities that are affected by or triggered on elite & specialist kills.
Just… no.
Stop making up scenarios and putting words in my mouth.
Re-read both my initial comment and response to you again.
I haven’t “missed the whole point of the thread. Badly.”
What are you even on about mate?
I have no idea why you’re singling me out with this absurd tirade.
Do you think people would…stop using golden toughness…if there were less Specials??
Sorry if I have misunderstood that comment but that’s what it sounds like you’re saying. If that is actually what you’re saying then I do not agree that would be the case at all.
Gold toughness is a ‘get out of jail free’ card that can be used in any scenario.
EDIT: Slightly unrelated to GT but:
One idea to spice up the abilities without getting rid of them completely would be for them to only affect certain enemy types. Perhaps Zealot only affects Maniacs and Unyeilding, Vet only affects gunners, pox walkers, and specials etc. Obviously I’ve just plucked those examples out of thin air but with some thought it could be fun to only disable some enemy types per class ability : thus creating a more dynamic need for situational awareness and not pausing the battle completely.
I just wish to remind everyone who have read this post that what I’m saying here relates to the bigger picture. Golden Toughness is inherently linked to the enemy spam issue. Without Gold Toughness, DT wouldn’t need so many enemies to make us struggle. And of course there are other things that add to the issue, and I will not act as if that isn’t the case. Adjustment to how much toughness a class can regenerate and nerfs to the DS, for instance, are things I very much expect FatShark to do in the next update.
Also, a lot of people are against the increase of enemy HP but again, please look at the bigger picture. I understand that Havoc 40 Rotten Armor pure Metal/Armored Enemy spam does not give this proposed solution a good name, but I am talking about doing it to balance out a SIGNIFICANT enemy spawn reduction rate. I am talking about a change that would make Havoc 40 Rotten Armor, a modifier that force-trickle-spawns Crushers, spawn 1 crusher at most. I literally want Crushers to be a huge rarity in games that are not Auric and up, and even then, I imagine seeing only 10 max in the entire game of Auric Mealstorm.
I really, want enemy spam to be purged from DT. I wish for a day when each elite enemy feels threatening as a single individual unit and not as a whole platoon. I want a single Reaper to startle the life out of players when it shows up in Auric and above. I want a Crusher to have non-Carapace weakspot and still take long to kill even if every hit is aimed at it. I want those enemies to be seen and felt in small numbers.
So, just, please understand the bigger picture. This big change that I’m proposing aims to fundamentally rip out enemy spam from DT once and for all. No more Armor Spam, no more Gunner Spam and No. More. Gold. Toughness. We’re currently in DT 2.0 with how currently enemies spawn and I wish for the next update to move us to DT 3.0. A game, where we no longer have Gold Toughness and the game actually requires skill and planning ahead from the players. The spawn numbers will never be as tame as they were in DT 1.0 (before the talent trees), but at least it will be much healthier for the engine, compared to what we have now.
Stop using? I would hope not considering that is the whole point of the mechanic. I mean what the heck is the point of even having abilties if they’re so bad you don’t even want to use them? Stop them from being spammed every fight because there are so many elites & specialists that the cooldown becomes irrelevant? Yes, yes it will. Because without massive cooldown reduction from excessive elite & specialist deaths you won’t be using either more than once unless in a long fight - and those are balanced around the mobs cheating by ignoring most mechanics anyway. At that point “gold toughness” is no longer a constant shield but a limited-use ablative.
So to repeat myself, yet again. There is nothing wrong with Voice or Chorus. What is wrong is that as difficulty goes up the stupid game throws more elites & specials while also tying all the cooldown reduction to killing elites & specials. Resulting in abilities balanced around not always being available instead being spammable due to effectively zero cooldown.
Want to test the idea? Take a build with either and run on Malice hitting the ability key with Voice or Chorus every time its up. Now try that on Damnation or Havoc. Yeah, big difference in how often you can use either. Because Malice has the “normal” amount of elite & specialist spawns around which cooldowns etc were balanced
I have a question for you: why are you so against the removal of Gold Toughness? You say that being overpowered for a duration of time is the whole point of combat abilities. However, when said abilities directly undermine or outright negate the entire game’s combat design, that argument immediately falls apart. Abilities that give us things like Gold Toughness are the reason why Enemy Spam exists in the first place.
And it’s also a vicious cycle because then said abilities that give us Gold Toughness become the only viable option. Look no further than to Havoc, where Gunner Spam makes it, so things like Voice of Command and Bubble are the only option that most can win with.
I agree that being overpowered is fun, but we need to look further than surface level enjoyment of being unkillable, because looking at the bigger picture shows us that it’s things like Voice of Command and Chorus of Spiritual Fortitude that are the reason for the horrid enemy spam that almost everyone hates (especially the engine).
You are totally right but it is not just good toughness, it’s all the insane toughness regen talents we have these days. All classes regenerate 50% of their toughness pool in 1s consistently and thus you only get damaged by stuff that hits you for more than your toughness pool or depletes it even faster. All toughness regen talents should be at least halved imo.
I agree
You got me I didn’t read all answers 
