Some concerns from casual player

Yeah, fair enough, a lot has changed. And I must admit the feeling has changed a bit as well. But in its very essense? You still fight with the same weapons, the controls are all the same, the enemies are the same (plus the new Beasties off course), the core components of the different types of attacks, and blocking, and the fact you need dodging and pushing and whatnot; it’s all the same still. I fully admit you need some time adjusting here. But “fundamentally different”? “Re-learn”? I’m not too sure about that.

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It definitely did feel like a different game in the first beta, and while it has gotten tweaked heavily since to be much more like the old game, it still has a hint of that to me.

Though I think a lot of folks might feel that this way from the addition of a new enemy faction alone. Taken all together, it seems a fair way to feel. I think FPS games are the most sensitive games when it comes to gamefeel. People who don’t play them often talk about how they all seem the same, but to folks who are into them, even super similar ones in the same series will have a very distinct feel (at least in my opinion). I used to notice this when I played CoD, and in my brain Battlefield 3 and CoD:4 feel totally different, lol. So I can get that “it all feels different!” from a minor change, cuz I think they cascade.

As for re-learn, I think there is a fair amount of re-learning, because a lot of players have an idea of what it takes to achieve x (like killing a Stormvermin), and especially with damage multipliers that is wildly varying now. It’s not just “one more hit”. It might be less than before, or several more, based on circumstances.

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I can double with that relearn comment. Dodging is less guaranteed evasion. Push attacks are more dangerous to do in hordes due to a combination of the new stagger prioritization meshing with the slot system making it so you can get hit going into your push follow up, you have to dodge in different directions, talent trees are radically different which effects builds, weapon loadouts, and even basic strategy.

Smaller things that were unexpected like silent special spawns, point-blank special spawns, and other miscellaneous crap we thought we were past are back. I’d say that the patches on Thursdays patch reverted a bit of the stress points, but they didn’t assuage all the woes because the core approach is different. Even smaller things like circling and abusing the slot system is different and all finales are approached differently because they scale.

Depending on your character and career you’re also relearning basic skills. Slayers leap is flacid, weapon loadout is changed due to the second row. IB’s flame strength is tossed about and a talent recharge built into the kit changes prioritization for safeguarding your allies. RV’s actually mostly the same. It’s just RV but crazy better because crossbow is crazy better and is an actual boss killer now. Damage across the board is technically up but it sure as heck won’t feel that way.

Moving on, enemies are more aggressive, approach in more angles, elites into hordes, health is way the heck up, stagger was aforementioned renerfed, bosses having essentially a never ending entourage of ambients (weapons are either better or worse because of these things by the way which affects what you play and the skills you even have to learn with new weapons you suddenly are forced into), and some enemies attack faster (or maybe it’s the cased you’re simply attacked more) which makes the previously mentioned push follow up a hell of a lot more risky since something can just slide right the hell in that slot and garrote you.

So when somebody says that they’re basically having to re-learn how to play. That’s what they’re doing. The skills you developed before no longer lead to consistent clears, so you must now learn new methods.

The game is the “same” in a very basic way. People that have similar amounts of hundreds to thousand(s) of hours should feel that immediately, which we did. Any similarities are as different in comparison as they are inevitable to compare.

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Look there is so many dificulty levels in vermintide 2, no one shoud complain dificulty wise, they even equalized experience gain.

Recruit - Walk in park
Veteran - Walk in park at night
Champion - Very balanced between challange and skill (I feel that mode relaxing and satisfying)
Legend - Skill
Cataclysm - Dedication skill and LUCK (even best players die there)

Simply find your niche.

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Well said.

Talents are a huge deal . . . like you said, some are very similar, others absolutely different. I’m having a hard time adjusting as Handmaiden - her talents aren’t bad now, but her ult was just gutted, it’s best just used for cheesing gaps and getting around the map. Using it near enemies is only worth it when you’re truly boxed in, since they’ll track you during it, and you don’t damage/stagger anything by default.

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You raise a lot of good points. I also cannot deny people’s experience and feels about the patch. For me it still feels a lot more like adjusting, and not at all like re-learning. Maybe that is because I played through all the last Betas and therefore had more time to get used to the new situation? Maybe we also are a lot closer in our experiences, but just call it differently (when I say adjust and you say re-learn).

It is just my impression that somebody who played Vermintide a lot can adjust to the new situation quickly enough, while someone who hasn’t played a lot needs to adjust anyways. I can absolutely understand where you are coming from with the obserbation that the feel is a bit different though, but I am still convinced it’s still the same game. I guess I have to admit to the fact that it is more difficult when you come freshly into this patch, but I’m also still convinced that in a relatively short while everybody can be back at their old level again since the absolute fundamentals have not changed.

In terms of Call of Duty like was given as example above: To me this patch feels like the diffetence between Modern Warfare 1 and Modern Warfare 2; Definitely a difference and absolutely one in feel, but if you were good at the first one you’ll be back at the same level in the second one soon enough with the experience you built up in 1. While the step definitely isn’t as big as the one in Advanced Warfare where they introdiced an entirely new movement system that radically changed the game. Patch 2.0 of Vermintide (to me) is definitely not that, so that’s why I see it more like adjustimg and not like re-learning.

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I see a lot of people applauding 2.0 for pushing us back towards V1 playstyles, which I don’t really understand, why would you make a second game if you gradually make it like the first one?
Did they really run out if inspiration?
Since they wanted Cata to be pre-made focused, they could have adapted ONS fully, not just half way like now and not even create the stagger meta.

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Her talents aren’t bad, but they are a radical shift in her style, and high attack speed plays terribly with the fps drop problems; during a drop to 20fps, with all her attack speed buffs going, every attack will be a phantom strike.

Mainly her problem is just how incredibly bad Dash is now. It needs some kind of innate buff, and honestly her ult talents need a total rework. An ability should not be garbage tier without a specific talent and broken with it.

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I dont mind grind in general but as far as i understand weaves would reset after 3 months or smth like that, that includes lvls/items. So if some IRL stuff comes out i would pretty much lose my progress and need to redo everything from the beginning. So i pretty much will never be able to fully experience weaves.

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