They know maps, bug fixes/Qol and cosmetics/illusions are their best way to gain players and keep them intrested, i don’t understand why they don’t add one of those every couple weeks/months.
The drachenfell period was nice, we got new maps pretty quickly after each other, even if it’s a bit slower then other games which i don’t mind to this extent. I know maps take some time to design, but if they just released a map then 2 weeks later some bug fixes or QoL, then a new illusion or cosmetic batch of a couple items. It would keep players intrested instead of playing the new map for a couple of weeks and then leaving for other games and coming back to vermintide 6 months later for the next content update. They could just spread stuff out more i think.
My expectations arent high tbh for season 3. They will probably reshuffle winds around for weaves and add some cosmetics to LE maybe. I don’t wanna wait like 4 months for patches and fixes and barely anything new. but who knows, maybe they are working on deed rework and crafting rework for s3, but i honestly doubt it
I wouldn’t attach the phrase “low-effort” to it. Last time FS attached a playable mode to an event and recycled it (outside of the anniversary) they were called lazy, so calling them lazy for not using the same event is just a lose-lose scenario for them. Mixed messages at the very least.
However, I do agree with wanting the bloody-mess that was the last BftBG event and I do so want frames, too. I like frames.
Shmames are a nice topping to what is the main-course of atmosphere and stylized combat to the event. I agree with you whole-heartedly but, don’t get me wrong, I do like me a fun frame it’s why I come in here every so often and flex my Eternal Serpent OH YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
Agreed on weaves seasons, I was a fan of the idea of them pushing more regular updates as a result of that, but it doesn’t seem to have panned out at all. We just get the same slow updates except effort is put into a gamemode that the vast majority of the community doesn’t actually play instead of more vital features instead, on top of stuff being delayed for seasons for seemingly no reasons?
Like how are those hats that were released at ridiculous prices still not back? Am I just missing them in the store or something? Hasn’t it been months since they said they were getting repriced? The drachenfels stuff was nice, but man some of the decisions this company makes are just bizarre.
Yes they wanna wait and release everything at the same time, but i don’t think it really works. If we actually did get new weave things per season it would be great, but we just get weave tweaks and balance changes and just the same gameplay but shuffled around, i don’t understand why they don’t just improve weaves while a season is going on? Like, everyone has been asking for matchmaking ranked weaves, don’t think anyone is against it, so it’s either very hard to make or they are saving it for ‘the big reveal’ on s3 patch. Yes its more content on s3 and everyone’s gonna be glad they introduced it, but meanwhile s2 was never enjoyed by the players who needed mm weaves to play them to the fullest.
Those hats are coming back for season 3, according to hedge with some changes to them? But yes, that is also a big example for why did they wait to introduce them in LE? They were obviously ready months ago, so why wait untill s3 to release them? I honestly don’t understand.
I am not against releasing new content or a fresh and new balancing every season, but atleast give us some cosmetics or Qol stuff (like crafting, or mm ranked weaves), i know they wanna redo crafting in a better way and rework it, but what would be wrong with just giving players a temporary Qol to rerolling for example while we wait?
I’m sorry , i’m ranting. And i agree with your statement that some decisions are bizarre and probably made with some good reasons, which we’ll never know
It’s not even just the season updates being kind of meh so far, it’s how inconsistent they feel. Like when is season 3 even coming out? Pretty much every other game with seasons makes them a set time and sticks to that, seasons just feel like updates at this point to me.
Agreed with the point about why they don’t seem to update in season too, like I guess the argument is competitive integrity, but that’s already a complete joke as far as I’m aware. Would rebalancing a near useless weapon really ruin the apparently hardcore competitive experience that is weaves? Does the couple of hundred (if that) people that actually take weaves seriously really matter that much compared to all of the other players? It’s just strange.
I don’t get the logic behind the incredibly slow balance updates or hats taking so long to implement even though they’re right there in the files at all. It’s not like it’s crazy hard to make changes, we’ve seen a whole community update in less time than it’s taken for a mace buff to go through lol
I do think they shouldn’t balance in weaves for leaderboard integrity (even if leaderboards are pretty bad, it’s still there for some). If we take season 1 weaves for example where bw was obviously broken if they fixed that during the season, alot of players would be mad, so i think it depends on what it is. Adding ranked mm to weaves doesn’t break integrity, buffing 1h axe (unless it gets buffed to broken state) i don’t see it as an issue to fix during seasons.
The fact that weaves s1 was so broken and bw was also broken and made it possible for teams to reach 120/160 even if it was still super hard, bw was the key to achieve it (or made it significantly easier, even if it was still broken difficult), so i think thats the main reason they still made the season 1 frame obtainable by playing season2 (other reasons were i think also the insane dmg scaling and time to reach 120). But if they decided to make the s1 frame available to everyone in s2 anyways, why not fix the obviously broken bw build, and reduce the dmg scaling? Leaderboards are still used and cared about by some players so i would understand that they wouldn’t wanna change it purely for that reason, then again they could of diffirentiated tabs on the leaderboard where it said ‘pre nerf’ etc.
But yes mostly i agree with that leaderboards shouldn’t come between normal game changes. Fatshark does wanna keep in mind everyone and i think thats their biggest issue. It’s impossible to keep everyone happy, they should follow their vision and take our opinions and make a good decision. Just feels like they are indecisive sometimes.
Edit: forgot to touch on the first part. Covid has made a huge impact on the season 3 delay. I don’t remember but i think s2 was released on time?
I’m pretty sure season 2 was not released when they had intended:
Season 2 was intended to start fully in December. This update would contain the first of three free maps as part of the ‘Curse of Drachenfels’ update, alongside ‘Lohner’s Emporium of Wonders’ for everyone, Quick Play enabled Weaves for Winds of Magic owners together with other considerations as noted in the Season 2 blog post. Given our focus on ‘game health’ these plans have adjusted slightly. With the recent success of the latest experimental test we are bringing the changes into a Beta Test.
Leaderboards don’t hinder balance changes. Not only did they say in a developer update that additional adjustments may come during seasons (Developer Update - January 31), they also completely wrecked Beastmen balance during Season 1. Weaves and Leaderboards aren’t and never have been the reason for decisions around balancing. I am not sure why people are fixated so much on this aspect.
People just focus on leaderboards and think that’s the reason to try and give a reason why they don’t change stuff. If it’s not leaderboard related then that’s even worse imo.
Beastmen changes didn’t really impact it that much as the meta was still just burn and hide/run. They could of tripled beastmen damage or lowered it nobody would even notice inside weaves. They never changed things that really impacted players inside weaves in a negative way during a season, maybe that will change in s3 and it’s just pure luck that we didn’t see any nerfs yet while the season was going on, who knows.
But we are just trying to find something that might explain their behaviour, so that’s leaderboards. It’s the same as players who hate on weaves because they think thats what everything gets balanced around, we don’t know, and you can’t really blame players for thinking that as we don’t have anything else. If it’s just taking 6 months to fix a broken bw then rip.
Edit: still a bit salty on how long it took to fix bw, the first fix didn’t even fix it. If it takes that long to notice an obvious broken build that is breaking your game and all your content then idk, honestly i will never understand.
If it’s not tied to seasons then the glacial release of… anything is even worse. Like the Shallya frame, or the mis-priced hats… and so on. If it’s not part of the season release then that excuse is gone - a decision to hold up content they already released once is bizarre.
Also what do they consider a “pressing need” for balance? Nurgloth was discussed to death about Phase 3 of his fight, his armour type and so on. I suspect it means any glaringly idiotic problems, as I personally think BW was a pressing need for a balance change and that took… forever. I can’t even remember if it was done mid-season.
For the “mis-priced” hats if I had to make a guess I would say they are reworking the design of them as well. If I remember correctly, it wasn’t only the price which was criticized but also that most of them had been pretty similar to existing cosmetics. I would assume they took note on that.
As for pressing need you have to differentiate between scenarios. BW was not done during season. But everytime there is something broken on the upper side they usually take a very long time to fix it. Why? Because they know how mental a part of the community goes. This can seen by the update notes. If they buff something it is: “Weapon damage for speer increased by 0.25 points.” For nerfing something it is: “Weapon damage for speer reduced by 0.25 points” followed by a quarter to half a page why this was necessary. Just remember BW or other broken stuff like DK where they argumented each time why this was done. And we still get the usual “But it is fun.” or “It is not PvP so who cares”. For nerfs, even if well needed they take their time until they have sufficient data to prove it and found a nerf variation which does not equal a knee-jerk reaction. The waiting time there has a lot to do with gaming psychology.
Buffs or indirect buffs like the Beastmen usually come a lot faster (and during the season like we have seen, so even if that reddit AMA was their initial plan it is outdated by evidence and new developer updates) unless it goes against their primary philosophy like making map end events -----poor easy again.
Then, for everything balance related I can’t stretch enough that we are missing a lot of data. Maybe many claims by us made around balancing are just not true like the alleged failure ratio for Convocation of Decay or similar. The statistics are more objective than any of us and maybe just maybe they show that the game is in a more balanced state then some of us want to believe.
Overall, we received with 2.0 and afterwards a massive buff and actually some slighter nerfs would be in place again. But it is hard to sell this to the community. So, they are probably looking for some greater patch where they buffzerk and nerf simultanesouly.
I understand that they need data to know if something is really broken. As with the end events rebalance they did it got tweaked rather quickly. The spear unlimited cleave push got also fixed rather quickly. So how do they explain waiting to nerf bw? Even after gathering all that data they still fixed her wrongly and had to fix her a second time. How about taking into account the players psychology everytime a bw joined your game and broke it?
Maybe they got alot of fake data because alot of players still were very bad with broken bw, so they shouldn’t look at those players. If you wanna see how something performs or if its broken or not, you should look at the highest level players, who tested her in beta and when they made the armor burn immediatly called it out. (Sounds elitist i know but there is no other way to put it).
How come spear push gets tweaked quickly but bw gets to be in the game for like a super long time. It’s not like it was subtle. It broke alot of content in the game.
Edit: some stuff is just obviously broken and shouldnt be waited on so long. It’s like there is a dupe in a game and the devs wait and collect data for 6 months or so to be sure it breaks the economy.
What do you mean with quickly concerning the spear? Time between forum post and fix or time between spear release and fix? If I remember correctly they did fix it after discussion in the forum. But at that point the weapon has been in the game already for months. So I wouldn’t call it quickly as they surely had a lot of data on it. And spear and broken Wizard released at the same time I think, so they took approximately the same time to be fixed.
As for broken stuff you have to look at all stats, overall and separetly. If success rate for example increases on all fronts than you may have created something which is to strong. If it is only broken in the hand of fews, you have created something which is skill-dependent. For some this might be okay.
I’m with you here. I think broken stuff should be fixed as fast as possible. There are still several things in the game which need some toning down in my opinion. But I don’t have all the data to make a final conclusion as not everything is as straight-forward as the BW.
What is described did pan out, all of the weapon/talent related balance changes ( which Marten singled out) were collected and tested in a season 2 Beta at the end of the season 1 in preparation for a “big” patch at the beginning of season 2.
The way his response reads to me is that weapon/talent balance was the focus of his answer since he did not even mention enemy balance. Even so, the response was given on September 5th, well after the stagger resistance nerf in 2.0.5 on August 19th, which is probably why a “pressing need” for balance still meant that changes between seasons were on the table.
“There may be additional adjustments made throughout this season”-Kasper, there were not any additional adjustments to Battle Wizard in Season 2 which really just lends itself to the main point of his answer.
The point being that the cadence of the balancing changes coincide with the end of the season, which to me reflects the end of Season 1 quite well.
Between forum posts. Spear wasn’t as ‘obvious’ as bw and pretty much got fixed quickly after the post. Bw was already known like way before, then they even made it more ‘consistent’ by adding buring super armor, which also sparked some posts to be made.
I mean bw was still squishy, so if you ate overhead after overhead or you kept getting hooked then sure data might say bw’s still die quickly. But i understand what you mean, i’m just still of the opinion if something is broken at the ‘most efficient or skilled’ usage then it should be nerfed.