[PC] Vermintide 2 - The Big Balance BETA - Update #4 (RC)

[Cornbane]

As far as I can tell, the spears basic attack and 2H Swords stab charged attack reach the damage ceiling when attacking in stealth.

[Abysswalker]

Yes, on headshots.

[Cornbane]

Backstab as well. Let’s not forget the Shade’s specialty.

Ran a couple tests on modded realm: Spear gets 0.50 from cap with backstab and the 75% talent. 2H and SnS only get about half way.
I’m seeing the daggers reach cap whether attacking from the front or back, no headshot.
These are on CW’s which have the same armor classification as Naglfahr and Ribspreader.

[Abysswalker]

Backstab doesnt influence it that much tho, since Infiltrate only adds a base X amount of damage to each weapons crit dmge (X is different for each), and its not multiplied by backstab.

[Cornbane]

I suppose in regards to the spear. However my statement on the daggers seems to be accurate.

Under every circumstance: attacking front, back, side, head, non-head - daggers are reaching cap.
Same seems to apply to the SnD stab heavy attack.
The OP on this particular topic might just be seeing the effects of the cap against an enemy with a larger health pool.

[Abysswalker]

Yea, probably, but also some of the weapons deal rly low damage for example against a stormfiend(or superarmor boss) if you dont hit it in weakpoints… Probably the reason of the OP.

[Cornbane]

Hold on, I think I may have found something.
It seems damage attacks from stealth on to the actual named bosses is greatly lowered. Even when hitting the head.
They may have have a different armor classification from CW’s now.
Still do full damage to Storm Fiend and Rasknitt even when hitting the armor.
Unless something is wrong with the creature spawner mod. But I believe it just pulls from the actual game files.

[brandter]

Well rat ogres do have a different armor class. They are the same armor class as a packmaster. As someone playing shade lately, hitting any armored boss deals extremly little damage even with ulti if you don’t go for weakspots. Ogres do take a bit more damage in the head but it’s a lot easier to go for his back with ulti. And chaos spawns are just idiots so gets killed fast just as usual. Sure the nerf on DD did change the effectivness of the ulti, but stabs still do good damage.

[KaizenDK]

Multiple instances regarding the same weapons

There are even more than this, these are just examples

@Fatshark_Hedge

2h Hammers for Bardin and Kruber

• Increased damage for light attacks by 7%.
• Increased damage cleave for heavy attacks, causing damage to more targets.
• Increased efficient dodge count from 1 to 2.

@Fatshark_Hedge

Two-Handed Hammers for Bardin and Kruber

• Increased efficient dodge count from 1 to 2

@Fatshark_Hedge

Flails for Saltzpyre

• Increased light attack damage by 33% for attack three and four.
• Increased light attack stagger power by 72% for attack three and four.
• Increased heavy attack damage against first target hit by 45%.
• Increased heavy attack stagger power against first target by 45%.

@Fatshark_Hedge

Flails for Saltzpyre

• Increased damage across the board for Heavy attack first targets.
• Incread stagger strength and duration for single target light attacks.

There are even more than this, these are just examples:

I’m a little confused by multiple instances of the same weapon. Which is right?

[BizarreSalp]

Appreciate that you buffed the 2H Axe. It’s one of the few reds I have for Bardin and it just looks awesome so I wanna use it. Actually, kudos and thanks for all of the changes have have made weapon selection so much more interesting.

Two things I still think need to be tweaked in this beta, though . . .

1. Please reduce the nerf on Dual Daggers. In the past balance system they’d be okay in this state, but now they are going to be the “unusable” weapons for Kerillian. I think the cleave/DoT nerf is completely fine, but perhaps only reduce the Charged Attack damage by 10%? This way you still need to invest for Stormvermin headshot kill, but it is more realistically achievable. It’s already a challenging weapon to use by its very nature of having such short range, and landing both headshots isn’t overly easy. Giving it this strength gives it a viable niche.

2. The Executioner Sword is still dealing severely reduced damage on its overhead; I’ve heard it’s a bug. If so, is that going to be fixed for full release? I’d like to have it back to (at least closer) to its former glory.

[fuzzydwarf]

@Fatshark_Hedge

2h Axes for Bardin

• Increased attack speed of third light attack.
• Removed precision targeting from all light attacks.
• Increased Infantry damage of heavy attacks by 39%.
• Increased Armored damage of heavy attacks by 11%.
• Increased Monster damage of heavy attacks by 41%.
• Increased Frenzy damage of heavy attacks by 12%.
• Increased stagger power of heavy attacks by 57%.
• Increased cleave of third light attack by 205%.
• Third light attack has new attack profile. Cleaves through more enemies but deals less damage compared to the first two attacks.
• Reduced armor penetration on push followup attack.

@Fatshark_Hedge These patch notes are wrong. These % increases were buffs to 2h axe light attacks.

If this change was intended, it is very odd. 2h axe can now one-shot marauders with the lights with ~20% infantry (I hit it with only +18% chaos). SV 2 light headshot is automatically hit without +power. The third light attack lets you kill hordes without spamming charged attacks, with cleave on that light attack easily CC’ing a good part of the horde and the other two lights one-shot body shotting fanatics and below without power. Lights even two shot bodyshot marauders without power.

If it’s a horde you leave in the 3rd light, if it’s a single target (SV/CW/mauler/boss) you block cancel for just the first two lights (because that 3rd attack becomes straight garbage). Charged attacks seem only worthwhile when you want to stun a target (so stun a CW to then spam lights? stun a berserker?). Seriously, charged attacks seem like they have a slower time to kill across the board and you effectively want to avoid using them now. And there seem to be few relevant breakpoints so I guess stacking +chaos is the ideal. The push attack is still bad and slow. No clue why that got nerfed vs armor at all.

The light attacks are better vs bosses than the charged attacks, so just spam light 1 + light 2 as much as possible. ~1m rat ogre kills with the A.I. turned off. Makes the weapon better, but it’s not exactly a spear equivalent.

Why make the 2h charged attacks obsolete (like 1h axe)?

[Flinlock]

@Argonaut14

Kruber and Sienna 1h swords get almost 300% increase in damage vs armour? Is this right? Sienna UC windmilling into a patrol now?

Well the previous armor damage for charge attack was super terrible so a 300% increase still isn’t that much. And it can’t cleave armor so it isn’t going to help that much in a Patrol situation.

[Adeon]

First. Handgun and Shield Slam.

Most frequent choice of ranged weapon for Foot Knight is handgun. It have breakpoints to one-shot every special in the game.

So, most usefull build is:
Handgun: Chaos+infantry
Charm: Chaos+Skaven

breakpoints:
~20% chaos/infantry to one shot chaos mages
~20% skaven/infantry to one shot Globadier
~20% Chaos to 2headshot, one body shot Chaos Warrior
~20% chaos to stagger Chaos Warrior with shield slam

1. With this breakpoints we can’t use attack speed on charm, because we will need to sacriface one of breakpoints. Best choice is trade skaven for attack speed, but maybe we can get a damage bonus 10% for handgun?

2. With 20% against Chaos we can stagger Chaos Warrior with shield slam, but I think it is too much and it is not allowing to use attack speed or crit chance on weapon, since second property (block cost reduction) is mandatory for shielded weapons. So I suggesting to increase stagger strength of shield slam further by 10% or something, so 10% against chaos would be enough to stagger Chaos Warrior.

Second. 2h Hammer.

I think it will be reasonable request to increase 2h hammer attack speed at least by 5%, since it is too slow and it useable mostly by Mercenary and Slayer.
Also it would be good if push-attack was heavy attack so it could trigger stamina regen talent, since the only heavy attack is almost useless for this purpose because you using it non stop (and you don’t need to block because you killing the crowd), or crowd is too close and you have no time to perform heavy attack.

Third. Temp HP.
Temp HP decay is too fast. Most HP you gaining from wave, disappears before second wave comes (under wave I mean a group of enemies, not the whole event when you hearing sound of horn). Also it brings competitive element in defence against the crowd, if you have several injured teammates, who need temp HP, which is bad for coop game.
With current decay rate Saltzpyre WHC talent, Justice’s bounty feels like it do nothing.

@Fatshark_Hedge

Reduced strength of pushes, notably shield pushes.

Shield push is not stagger StormVermin while performing overhead. Was it intended?
Add comments to changes please, so it was possible to understand what your final goal is.

[Silvah]

Still have to ask again.

What about the shadownerf to the Executioner swords heavy attacks?
Is it intentional or not?

[BizarreSalp]

Yeah, I believe you need 3 total combos (of two charged, 3rd light) with all HEADSHOTS to kill a Chaos Warrior. This is something you can work with, especially given the other strengths of the 1h Sword, but it’s far from good. Still, I think this puts the 1h Swords in a good place right now.

@Adeon I don’t think the 2h Hammer needs anymore buffs, it’s kind of a powerhouse atm. A lot killier and with crazy stagger. And temp HP has been changed to intentionally be a resource you use for a single fight, and nothing more. It seems the devs want the game to play more like VT1 - enemies are more consistent and easier to dodge, but when you do make a mistake you are more heavily punished.

[arknox]

This should not be a release candidate. Balance is still out of whack and you have broken many things that previously worked. Just look around the feedback section.

You want to go out of beta with a patch that is better than live right?..

[JLB]

@arknox

You want to go out of beta with a patch that is better than live right?..

That’s an unimaginably low barrier of entry that they’ve safely passed. I can’t believe everyone has already forgotten that live is a steaming pile of stinking garbage. You’re arguing for perfectionism, which is laughable because, well, scroll up and look at the word at the top of the screen next to Bodvarr’s head. Be real.

[arknox]

Wrong. I’m arguing for better balance than current live. Better balance, not just different broken balance.

[JLB]

You want balance that’s not broken in a Vermintide game? Well, let me know when you’ve made that dimensional portal, I’d like to live in that particular universe.

It’s a pipe dream. Trying to vie for anything approaching “not broken” let alone “functional” is just creating white noise. There’s things shatfark can do and then there’s things they can’t. This here is one of the latter. It’s time to deal with the fact that in all essentiality, we’re getting different turds each major balance change, and it’s just the specific texture, shape and fragrance of the turd that varies. That’s how it’ll always be. I’ve been here for 3+ years and I can tell you that it doesn’t get good. It gets better but it doesn’t get good, which is what you want.

So being realistic, this is about as good as we get, dumb nerfs to handgun and xsword aside.

[arknox]

If you have such a low opinion of them and their game why are you even still here?