THP is a system i absolutely dread in Vermintide 2.
Not only had it obvious continuous problems with the Zealot, it also developed a mentality in many players that THP is needed and thus everything that steals their precious THP is seen as terrible. I think everyone who has experience with any Vermintide 2 forum has seen the sentence: “…they are stealing THP from those who need it…”
No one needs THP. Its a silly mechanic that just excuses mistakes at best and thus teaches bad gameplay. If we would take out THP generation alltogether, i bet my pc that many players on legend and cata would go back to champion.
And that is what i would like to see in Darktide. No health regeneration based on the character of any kind. Only the medic items in a level should regenerate health. This alone would bump up the average difficulty and force more teamplay.
I would assume the shield is just a new feature based on the more ranged heavy environment we will be playing in. Health regeneration is sadly a feature used in both Vermintide games, so its very likely that it will come back to Darktide. I am really against it, but i know that having the option is always the best way to go.
So maybe a mode that doesnt allow character health regeneration in any way?
i liked the way Vermintide 1 handled it, the rate at wich you gained health was so low that it wouldn’t matter if you played badly and rewarded players who could keep their concentration over long periods.
i think its a really good motivator for people to play better, knowing they could potentially get out of harms way.
sadly in V2 they went with the temp hp system wich kinda didnt do anything i mentioned above, maybe they thought making it temporal would result in it being less valuable wich point for point might be true, but you need to give players more of it, so it doesnt decay 2s after you got it wich in return means players can stack it way quicker as in V1.
I liked the system in V1 more, too, but it was also busted. I dont remember the specifics anymore, but i know that one of the two procentual lifeleeching traits was able to let you full heal through hordes. I believe it was Sienna who benefited most of it because of a specific weapon, but again, not sure about the specifics anymore.
Thp is such an integral part of the game (vt2) though. Removing it would change the core concept of the game. They might want to go in a different direction in darktide, which is fine, it’s their game.
I personally like thp, it gives the game more depth and rewards taking calculated risks. Without it the optimal playstyle would be defensive and ranged gameplay, which imo isn’t very fun.
Sorry dude, but no. Its not an integral part of the game and you are the prime example of those i am talking about in the initial comment. Players developed the mentality of THP being such an important part of the game that it has to be used. Not because it gives more depth or rewards taking risks, but because of excusing mistakes, since one enemy hit doesnt matter when you can easily brush it of with a cushion or get a cushion back after the blow.
There is no risk taking, which is the prime reason why Zealot had consistent balance problems. The fact that you think that the optimal playstile without THP is defensive and ranged is just proof of my other statement, that THP thought bad gameplay to players.
Completely disagree with how you’ve characterized it.
V2 has lots of AoE, friendly fire, buggy Specials that catch you through the back of other enemies and an near unlimited difficulty cap with modifiers. Not to mention difficulty spikes and randomness causing them in terms of positioning too.
Higher difficulties are where it makes sense and it works just as the heal did in v1, where you just play a bit defensively to pool and then go again. It even decays on ranged careers as it should.
You can just mod the game if you want to die to Chaos Troll bile through a wall or a Gutter Runner leaping through 10 Chaos Warriors and insta downing you.
The difficulty without THP would make the game insanely inconsistent too. Since that would only work for teams on VOIP or people playing 20% dodge distance dual wield weapons and doing true solos.
QP in every other area of the game would become complete trash, due to so many variables, including balance around having 2 people and noone else joining.
The only other person I’ve seen say anything to do with THP being unnecessary ult’d me through the back while I was on 20% true health and needed to clear adds for THP. It was pretty funny tbh. I was BH with Repeater Pistol and they enabled PVP against me.
In terms of teamplay, the game is easier and works better if you play properly regardless of THP other than a few outliers who can run around solo for no reason, like Zealot.
I’m totally for toning it down for certain builds, but I think it works extremely well for allowing higher difficulty content. And certain builds would just become way too frustrating to play, e.g 2H Weapons which already lose out to versatile Dual Wield Weapons or Careers with stacked Melee Passives and Talents.
I’m also for an overhaul of it, since certain characters get THP Talent choices that make no sense for their item sets.
Cue that one nappy rat poxwalker that stabs you in the flank and opens up your shield to the traitor guardsmen.
If it’s designed to counter ranged enemies specifically then I imagine it won’t block any hits in melee or it’d be like a free Ironbreaker passive for everyone in the party, which would be ridiculously strong.
I just hope Darktide doesn’t have the bs spawns that warp in out of thin air mid shank behind you or teammates.
I am not “one of those” players, i have almost 2k hours in the game and the last 1200 have been in modded difficulties. I can somewhat agree that official difficulties does not warrant thp to the same extent as modded, mostly because it does not scale difficulty past a certain point.
But the fact remains that if you juice up the core difficulty in vt2 (hp, n# of enemies, variation of enemies, stagger resistance, horde timer etc) then thp plays an integral part of how the game is played, and removing it would mean to remake the gameplay loop entirely.
Which many players do not want, since we like vt2 for what it is.
aren’t modded difficulties just a means to have more challange? and therefore not necessary when the base game would be harder?
im not saying your wrong, but argueing that a mechanic that makes the game easier is necessary so you can make the game harder is odd.
on release of v2 even veterans of vermintide1 complained alot about veteran difficulty being too hard (yes that was a thing) afterall difficulty can come from a vareity of things and is percieved diferently depending on what tools we have at our dissposal
well i hope thats the case, but if it were to block one melee atack like gromrils amor, i don’t think it would automaticly be “ridiculously strong” that would depend on a bunch of other factors, such as:
-what form, if any, sustain we have.
-is the average of “getting hit in melee” higher than v2 (maybe our defences IE, block dodge and push are weaker compared to v2)
-how much penalty is there from splitting the party
-would it block a full atack no matter what or does it substract depending on the amount of shield you had
i think if fatshark decided thats how they wanna go about it im sure that they would make sure that it won’t result in a significant easier game
It’s more about what type of challenge, if you remove thp then defensive play becomes much more important and ranged is going to skyrocket in power. This is true for both modded and official. It would essentially turn the core gameplay on its head.
I don’t mind them doing it in darktide, as long as it’s good and challenging in a fun way. And if it’s not I’ll just accept that it’s not for me (after complaining a bit on forum about how they butchered my baby ofc) and continue with vermintide 2.
I guess what I’m trying to say is “don’t fix it if it aint broken”, but on the flipside I can understand fatshark wanting to try out different stuff and appease to a larger, more casual crowd than a sweaty hardcore tryhard like me.
I just want to raise my opinion, in the end that’s all anyone can do.
I really liked THP. I liked that you received a beneficial mechanic for killing lots of enemies, especially elites and specials. I also liked that skilled players could make do with only THP while leaving healing for the rest of the team. It meant you could take more risks, and that felt pretty fun.
I’m also worried because I usually play more defensively oriented classes like Ironbreaker, Unchained, etc. If I don’t have a class thats really tanky in Darktide then, if anything, I’ll be relying more on THP to bridge the gap. Plus, it just helps with those random, one off butt stabs rats like to do.
i get where you’re coming from, it would intrest me what your look on permanet HP is, as it was in vermitide 1 (my overall prefered system), imo it was way better balanced as it would give you way less but permanently. and was almost equally strong on all heroes
where as thp from v2 flactuates heavily based on weapon/career
To be completely honest I only had like 50 hours in vt1 so I’m not familiar to that system.
Regarding the inbalance of thp talents I can’t really comment either, since I’ve been playing with the tourney rebalance mod since it was made aprox 6 months ago, where they basically gave everyone the same thp talents, balanced the outliers and also brought down the dumb stuff like fire sword on stagger etc.
What I can comment on is c3dwons+ and how the game plays:
The difficulty lies in having enough dps, this is mostly because the horde timer never rests, as soon as a horde starts, the timer starts ticking. Which means it’s very important to kill that horde as fast as possible so that you can keep pace up (higher pace equals less time spent in missions, equals less supplies used).
It’s also paramount to deal with elites in a swift maner, this is where thp is so important and where the risk/reward playstyle comes into play. For example you might want to trade hits if it means you can lower the amount of elites from 8 to 4, the difficulty scales exponentially when throwing more elites in the mix. Dealing with 4 elites is really easy, dealing with 8 elites not so much. You also have a lot of chip dmg in higher difficulties (from gas, flamer, disablers etc…) so you really need thp to mitigate that damage.
Above can also be applied to official (normal cata etc). I just think the problem there is the difference in skill level of players and also probably a lot of players that are too good for the difficulty they’re playing on.
This only really holds true for lower difficulties, for higher ones the punishment for any random hit is far larger and thus stuff like enemies spawning behind you and hitting you soundlessly becomes a major deal.
Or just high pressure events like some chaos wastes stuff where an army of armor + specials spawn at the same time and chip damage is impossible to avoid, its not even a question of skill. And thus having something that lets you deal with that is crucial for a player to enjoy the game or its just a parade of unfair deaths and frustration.
I think you are looking at the one really major outlier that is zealot(possibly SoT too) and throw everything THP related into the same pit as him which i cant say i agree with at all.
even tho you don’t really want to coment on the inbalance you do recognise its existance (like firesword and dualhammers etc).
another interesting question:
do you think darktide should consider the v2 modded community (especially the extra difficulty mods) in its development? im not talking about the ability to mod, but rather if the core-gameplay should allow for similar mods we currently have?
would be intressting to hear it from someone who playes modded exlusively (?).
to give you my take: i would strongly disagree, because modders (as long as its moddable ofc) will come up with the nessecary solutions to increase, whatever darktide gonna be, into a more challenging expierence