Yeah it probably needs a slight tweak to make it bit more powerful but the general idea behind the talent even now is pretty valuable.
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On high difficulties damage reduction talents usually outweigh others in the same tier because they let you survive stuff you otherwise couldnât, especially if its an unconditional passive. Iâd like to take Bombardier but staying in one piece is tad bit more important.
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Itâs on demand if you never melee because it can easily be wasted on trash. Since itâs indiscriminate on what youâre hitting, you can easily lose your buff hitting some trash instead of the chaos warrior walking in 5 seconds later. The only solution is to hold block and wait for the chaos warrior before hitting which is a loss of space.
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Yeah hence its very weapon dependent. With coghammer it works like a charm, with 2H hammer I would not even consider it based on the fact that you have to constantly heavy attack.
Even so the effect is still pretty dam strong and valuable. It would probably benefit from having special button to proc the effect from like has been suggested but the talent is no means weak and i would pick it always over something like bombadier.
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Bombardier is definitely the weakest choice of the 3 since it relies on happen to having a bomb and hoping not to be in the situation to throw 10 bombs and running low.
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Itâs interesting to think how to change the way Piston power activates to give more control when to use it.
I have 3 variants in mind:
-
Special attack button - press it to imbue your next charged attack with the Piston power stagger.
Drawback: mechanically more difficult, requires rare keyboard input. -
New condition - Only shield bash or overheads with two hands can use Piston power. That way lights from 2h axe and 2h hammer will use Piston power, while chargeds are left free for trash mobs.
Drawback: light overheads donât have charge time which make Piston power look more impactful and powerful. -
Only initial charged attack, or charged attack after block cancel - can trigger Piston power. So if you start with light or pushatk, then combo into charged attack - it wonât trigger Piston power.
Drawback: a bit convoluted.
I like the sound of 1st and 2nd variant.
Even with drawbacks these inputs are still better than current one, which have bad synergy with 2h axe and 2h hammer. And somewhat with shields (shieldbashes are useful for variety of targets).
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I find the way it is implemented now to be very satisfying to micromanage. Engi is all about micromanaging stuff, and this fits the lore very well. I like it when you have to think a bit and choose your targets before going YOLO into a crowd spamming heavies - that at least adds something new to the gameplay. Plz leave it alone - piston power is one of the things done right already.
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I really really disagree with this. The talent is absolutely not as valuable when youâre getting hit a lot, and I donât get how barkskin makes it a bad choice here at all? If youâre only getting hit once or twice in a fight this talent is at its strongest, especially with barkskin.
Yeah you could do the âjust donât get hit loooolâ thing I guess but thatâs true for every talent, nothing is necessary if you play perfect. I donât think itâs really comparable to gromril curse.
Piston power is just ridiculously restrictive on how you play if you want to get value out of it and not just waste it on a dead elite. I donât get the point of running a talent that pushes you to not use your weapons optimally, instead of just playing another career with better stagger instead of engi.
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Uhm, there is this thing called âfunâ which is mostly why I play video games. Your mileage may vary of course, but there is no other career that has a freaking minigun, and not all of us actually care about doing anything âoptimallyâ.
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Sure, but thatâs not really relevant if weâre talking about balance.
Nobody mentioned whether a talent is or isnât fun, if we were going off fun Iâd always run the bomb one. Engi isnât a single talent, I can think something is too restrictive and not terribly strong and also think heâs fun overall.
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Well its just that - it depends on the goal. If you change piston power, itâll be less fun in my opinion. Also, I donât think making it easier to use would actually improve any kind of balance.
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The balancing of the talent is probably fine. Granted it does somewhat affect weapon choice but thatâs fine since itâs not the only option on the row
Really only thing Iâm concerned about is that Engineer doesnât have a whole lot going for him outside the minigun. Piston power while fun, is undeniably a bit gimmicky and bombardier, while also fun, relies on actually having a bomb on you to mean anything. All of the Engiâs other talents range from kinda underwhelming to being good but minigun-centric. The class right now is pretty much just a minigun and thatâs about all there is to him in terms of value compared to the other dwarf careers and honestly the minigun is just a slightly better drakegun that requires a ton more micromanagement.
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So what do you feel like should be changed ?
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good question tbh
not 100% sure but beefing up his durability and melee options a touch and also making the whole cranking thing less tedious would do it. Nothing extreme, just something to make builds not focused on maximizing minigun uptime a bit more viable and also making engi a bit less anemic when under pressure
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What about some talent that generate cranking while meleeing then ?
And some passive small buff to his heavy attack to justify the mechanical arm.
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Kinda true. Also though you can take a Drake gun along with your Minigun, even rock Hunter with leading shots if you want for a heap of bonus damage, and be probably the best horde clearer in the game, which seems pretty valuable at least in a coordinated group.
Yep agreed. Iâd go with the following:
Pressure stacks wear off one at a time.
OR
Make pressure stacks not wear off at max Ult charge. Then allow cranking at max charge. Would make stuff like Full Head of Steam and such way more reasonable to maintain. Would also mean you retain Superior Gaskets AS until you actually fire the Minigun. Would also reduce the micro of Steam Capacitors a touch. I think steam capacitors is good enough to be viable even with just the effect of not losing pressure when firing, but Iâm sure some would disagree.
I prefer the latter option, doing both might take too much micro out. Also give him 125 base HP, then IMO he is extremely solid.
Personally I think it would be very fair for piston Power to also grant a melee power bonus to the attack that activates it. Like 15-20% since 15 second cooldown is pretty long in Vermintime. But even 10% would be nice.
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kinda diminishing returns, the downside of taking a drakegun is that while you get great horde clear, you lose a sniper and Engi can get around that downside. 2 flamethrowers on a team doesnât feel that much better than having the 1 and the same logic applies with minigun and drakegun. The problem is that you could also just as easily take an IB with drakegun and get pretty much the same, if not more, value for the team.
Steam capacitors is actually the strongest talent on that row itâs just that itâs the most micromanagement. People will probably just opt for gaskets because it eliminates the tedium of cranking even though minigun uptime>>>>>>>>>>>>>>10% attack speed
125 base hp is something i definitely agree with, both as a balancing thing and as a logical thing. A dude in a big engineer outfit with a mechanical arm and steam engine on his back should be able to take more of a licking than a ranger in comparatively light gear.
probably too good without a downside since maximising minigun uptime is the highest dps option for engineer and if you can crank without having to disengage from a fight or be vulnerable while cranking then thatâs even better. Gaskets would be overpowered if it let you stay at 5 stacks constantly, for example.
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I can definitely see your point here, I personally prefer handgun to cover the Minigunâs weaknesses, just think power stacking full horde clear is an interesting build option.
Completely agreed, which is why I think it could afford to have the keep pressure stacks at full charge effect taken off it and made passive and still be a very strong choice. Also I disagree itâs the most micromanagement. Only having to crank once after shooting is a hell of a lot smoother than using Full Head of Steam. I really wanted to like Full Head of Steam but itâs just a nightmare to manage with how many things lose you your pressure stacks. Superior Gaskets is great as is but again losing the buff at full charge seems an unnecessary limitation.
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I think the engineer is a one trick pony with only his minigun the only thing he really brings to the table. His lack of resource generation causes him to lack utility/effective ranged weapon use (sans the minigun). Bombardier does extend the use of a resource, but it doesnât really create a nuke, and it doesnât actually create resources but just (slightly) increase the value of a finite resource (since bombs are just shrapnel appliers most of the time anyway with the occasional pressure removal tool), so it doesnât warrant choosing bombardier over the ability to cover one of engineerâs weaknesses, space generation/squishiness. He does have that spotter aura, but auras in general are really hard to rely on, so itâs really only a self-buff.
Engineerâs really only resource that he does create is bullets for himself in the form of the minigun, so really, using the minigun more is the ultimate goal â creating more resources/value.
If engineer could actually create ammo for his ranged weapon, heâd bring more boss damage/high value target removal which is great for actually helping alleviate pressure/create space. Personally, because of this, I much prefer AP rounds to help kill armored targets easier/faster.
His only methods for creating ammo for his ranged weapon would be using the gauranteed crits talent and using scrounger after shooting the minigun or doing something similar with conservative/scrounger with the melee to get a free shot talent, and realistically, both are way too clunky to put into practice.
Like Incan said, the minigun is really only a beefed up drakegun, and those have have issues already, and the major issue of low armor damage (sans AP rounds), and denying thp havenât really gone away, so it actually limits the engineerâs team in effectiveness.
There are other ideas Iâd like to see to address these issues such as making the talent that gives a 15% power (wooâŚ) after spending an eternity cranking actually help give ammo like making the next shot (or drakegun blast) give ammo if you kill an elite/special to actually make that talent more viable.
The bomb generation idea I opened with in the first post would actually bring more utility to the engineer and might make non-shrapnel choices more viable since bombs can be used for other things than saving for certain situations.
Personally, Iâm not a huge fan of the free shot with melee, but I think thatâs a different discussion to figure out if it is an issue.
Oh and that triple bomb carrying thing is completely a gimmick/win more talent. If youâre playing well enough not to need to use bombs where your team has all 4 already, those extra 2 bombs your team can carry isnât really that valuable since youâre winning already. If you actually need to carry/use more bombs, youâd likely not going to reach 6 bombs in your team.
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