But that is a ise case though, the revolvers low ammo, high shot power gives it a specific use case when you need just 1 or so enemies delt with and its reload mechanic makes it hard to reload in the middle of a fight, fast run and swap speed not to mention a blessing that directly encourages you to use after melee kills and a high crit rate for when you’re lucky
Compare that with a “dmr” (infantry lasgun xii/la or headhunter VII I’m guessing) where their expanded ammo supply allows for far more shots encouraging a play style that shoots more, above average damage but below heavy hitters damage without the firerate and ammo supply weaker (per hit) guns have making players think more on each shot, blessings that give immunity to suppression and ranged attacks for several seconds, and a blessing that increases your crit chance on headshot
lasguns also have reverse fallof which basically means the closer you are to what you’re shooting, the less damage you deal, the further you are the more you do
Helbores have 0 drop off but needs to be charged to full have a long pull out time making players more careful when pulling it out (arguably too long in its current state), and only shoot when you release the trigger
Plasma has delayed shots after you click and pierce basically everything
Bolters have the ability to turn a heavy shot mag dumper into a dmr on the click of a button and also has a long pull out and put away animation
But sure, they’re all the same because you point at something and press to shoot. Ignore the “fluff” that gives them their identity in game and affects how they’re played
Every point beautifully made but I disagree with this being too long. The pullout time seems like deliberate design to me. You have a bayonet. Use it. Switch to your shovel when you plan to use that for a while.
Understandable though it becomes a pain with a helbore 3, just a bit faster pull out speed on them (and the bolter if I’m honest) and they’d be perfect for what they offer
I mean hell no, the Helbore needs to be redesigned. No one uses it. NO ONE. Whatever clever ideas they had when making it, they missed the mark. No one wants to be charging up rifle shots.
And no, just because you and your pet dog play with it every sunday, doesn’t mean its “popular”.
I never see ANY vets using it. I took one of my god rolled ones out yesterday too, and was just as dissappointed. Stupid mk3 still has a bugged melee animation too. Makes me wonder whether they ever intend to fix it at all.
ooh ooh, build it as a crit headshot weapon! try that! its actually really good. Sadly, to remove the sway you’ll need to equip Deadshot (stamina used per shot), but I kid you not, that weapon can be super fun when used as a marksman tool.
That isn’t to say I think the weapon shouldn’t be reworked though. Its very unpopular right now, due to its overall clunky design and very poor stats overall.
(I’ve debated this with others. I don’t think iconic 40k weapons should be in the NICHE category lol)
Sounds fantastic! Especially excited for the apparently extremely forgiving mastery conversion, so those of us with nearly every blessing unlocked can expect to get right to the good stuff!
And what about the people who specifically spent effort into buying and unlocking every blessing of every tier they could? Not to mention the many T2-3 exclusive blessings, many of which are really strong?
Besides they already said they’ve heavily weighted the T4 blessings and you’ll get full mastery with basically just those.
Damn one slow reloading, slow swapping, headshot crit rifle with a pinpoint sized bullet.
Praise one slow reloading, slow swapping, headshot crit rifle with a pinpoint sized bullet, that needs a certain stamina devouring Talent to halfway function.
They both require way more effort than they are worth right now.
(And no. I do not think reducing swap, or reload times is what needs to be done. Weapons need to be good enough to be worth it despite their unique features.)
Nah, I just meant that to Nish, specifically. Somone accused him of using the bolter wrong, because he hosed a pox horde once upon a time. I suggested try sniping with it.
I agree, it needs reworking.I never use the slow, clunky pile of rubbish.
I think i remember Strawhat saying that through mastery a player can unlock blessings, marks and skins. I wonder about skins. Is it true or just me misremembering?
OCD demands to finish the collection. I have, at this point 90% of all blessings only a few elusive tier 4 remain. Like the Slab shield that seems to favor tier 3 blessings when you upgrade.
I’d be quite upset if my effort wouldn’t be rewarded.
But this is the thing. There was exactly 0 incentive to collect every blessing except for t4 ones (or whatever the max level is for that blessing). No penances. No achievements.
You shouldn’t be rewarded for something you weren’t supposed to do in the first place.
While I agree it seems very deliberate I am still not a fan of it. Switching from melee to ranged to get off a shot is especially tedious. I get it’s a Marksman’s weapon, but that playstyle doesn’t really fit the game.
I think the long pullout time on the Boltgun is fine, because immediately after swapping to it you can empty your whole mag in a short amount of time to kill bosses and groups of melee elites. You cant do that with the Helbores.
I don’t need a penance or an achievement to do something… and the incentive is to have them. Not to mention that i am way to long playing video games not to be aware of the fact that things change… and it was more than clear that the Dev wants you to use lower tier Blessings, because why have them if we ain’t supposed to have them? I always expected some sort of balance adjustment that either incentivized lower tier Blessings or downright changes. I didn’t expect this change we have now, but a change i expected (i was more thinking a long the lines of making lower tier more potent with secondary effects).
Don’t get me wrong, people in my premade didn’t bother collecting either… and i would find it very unfair, given that i spend time and resources on this.
If i wasn’t supposed to do it, then why did they let me collect it? It was clearly the case that the Developer meant for us to collect and use these, or we wouldn’t have been able to collect them. If they would have been just meant to be carried on a low level item, then they could have had them but not let us collect them.
And i also don’t see why those that went to the effort shouldn’t be rewarded or how that is unfair towards people that did not put any effort into this.
I disagree. I think the issue is rather that the playstyle is unrewarding at the moment due to lack of potency of the weapons. The issue is that a Bolt Weapon or the Revolver outperform the task of sniping specials, while at the same time “Marksman” weapons feel anemic and toothless. And when you combine an unrewarding feeling weapon with a high skill floor to use it well… then it is no wonder nobody wants to do it.
I have tried it as a sniper before and don’t see the appeal. Best use on Vet I found was based on @Antilus’s build as boss burster supporting a melee build. You could even do tag sniping with my version which was a 50/50 hybrid before ammo nerf. It wasn’t/isn’t the best thing, but it also isn’t bad.
It’s just @dragomusic misreading part of my post that I could have worded better and replying to me in the usual hostile manner.
Basically my original post meant to say that the reason it was nerfed was because they wanted to stop that use case, and not that it’s or was a good tactic to burst poxie waves outside specific scenarios like I described above.
BTW, I still think that pre-patch 13 people blasting away waves of poxies constantly was hoax. It was regularly noted in nerf threads, but I personally never seen it, and even then strong ammo regen back then couldn’t have kept up with that. I think the targeted nerf to infected was because of this feedback tho.
again, missing the point here. Time to draw, ads, etc, is flavor, but each weapon is essentially designed for the same purpose with minor differences in how they’re used, not why they’re used. Their specific individuality is muddied and differences are rather minor, but one just does the job better than the rest, sure with caveats, but those caveats don’t necessarily make it a different weapon, just a different feel of the same weapon. What I’m talking about here is more like the difference between a void staff and a trauma staff. They’re very much incredibly different weapons that do very different things in pretty much every way. You can’t compare a flamer to a plasrifle, but you can make comparisons between the weapons that try to make oneshot breakpoints, and those weapons have far too much overlap. You can make a better comparison with something like Space Marine 2’s array of weapons, and how differently they behave from one another; there’s far, far, less overlap in weapon behavior and use.
Looking forward to a deeper dive in the blessing/perk side of things, but I think most observative people already worked out the jist of how it’s supposed to work. Just need it officially on paper.
I do - it’s by far my favourite weapon in game. Mk II is the clear winner though because Mk I doesn’t seem to hit any relevant breakpoints better the the II and the III has an awkward and next to useless bayonet slash…
I don’t care if it’s popular - I like it. If you don’t, choose a different weapon.
I see it used seldom - true. But the same is true for:
Infantry lasguns
Infantry autoguns
Bolt weapons
Recon lasguns
Laspistol
Auto pistol
Shotguns
Because 95% of random vets seem to use either a revolver or a plasma gun.
ok thanks, I’m not sure what you’re doing here arguing this.
My complaint is only that the weapon has a long charge up. I think it should behave as described in the law. Low ammo capacity, NO wind up.
Would that instantly destroy the weapon? Making it impossible for you to enjoy now? Why come at me saying you think the weapon is great and I, and presumably ANYONE else who plays, should never get to use it? I think we should make the weapon fun for everyone.
See, its not even lore accurate. Which is the final nail for me.
And now I can’t even take you seriously. JFC, thanks! You, up until THIS point, were at least credible. Now you’re just lying. Get lost man.
In future, if you’re going to fight to keep a weapon as it is, by placing yourself opposed to other peoples wishes, can you at least base your argument on FACT and EVIDENCE, not falsehoods and overexaggerations?
At least when I say I never see anyone use a Lucius, I mean it. When I say I’ve played with it extensively, and dislike its design, I mean it!
Hellbore is legitimately fine. Good breakpoints, good effectiveness against all armour types. Best gun melee (besides mk III, see suggestions below), good general DPS with onslaught blessing, charge up has kinda built in synergy with surgical.
2 things I would like for it that would make it a little spicier:
Mk III bayonet attack rotated 90 degrees, and give it some decent cleave. It’s already a lot slower than the other 2, it would be nice if it wasn’t just a worse single target attack compared to the other 2 and just did its own thing.
Change weapon specialist triggers to on melee hit/trigger pull and remove the swap requirement. This would let hellbore utilise both bonuses on its own, a novel build option that feels fitting for a unique class weapon.
