If you want I can send the thread off into full meltdown mode, just for funsies.
Political threads are always just one post away from poopflinging of biblical proportions.
no, i’m not a nazi sympathiser. I just love watching these sort of threads explode
God help me, I’ve been enjoying myself on the forum, time to pull the plug
You and me both. Beats being angry over Darktide.
Warhammer 40K is still effective as a money sink.
As a sci-fi setting it’s painfully lazy and without much nuance.
I like that it leans heavily on the (neo) Gothic esthetic and IMO, the concepts of Hive Cities are probably the most interesting thing that WH40K brings to the table.
Apart from that, it’s just layers and layers (and then more layers) of childish over scaled ridiculousness which a lot of people seem to like.
I’ve heard that W40K is focusing more on personal or squad-level narratives in recent years and that kinda tracks because these stories work regardless of the setting. (btw, this reminds me of what they are doing with Star Wars and it’s origin / anthology series)
In short, it’s not fascism that’s the main problem with 40K. It’s that, while it looks good, it’s just bad and lazy sci-fi writting (the overall setting, not all the books.)
Just my 2c
It’s not really hard sci-fi, it’s more like pulp sci-fi, like Star Wars is. So cutting edge ideas aren’t really expected and it is a bit silly to expect it to have them as it was never intended to be that way. lol.
That said, as far as I know Warhammer 40k was the first to do FTL with the spaceships physically travelling through space hell with the demons knocking on the door. There’s been some close things, but not quite that concept.
As far as comparisons to other mainstream pulp sci-fi goes, imo it holds up very well… even without most mainstream pulp scifi self destructing in the last 2 decades…
It’s going to be popcorn worthy to see the twitter tantrum when the amazon shows come out lol.
This is always going to come down to personal opinion on whether someone thinks it matters if the satire is up front hand-holdy or not.
I got the satire aspect from learning the setting, not from the advertising material. I don’t have an issue with that because at the end of the day the imperium is still comically awful.
He is some hysteroid from twitter, it seems, such people ruin every setting they can touch, pushing their political agenda under “make the world a better place” promo, washing out everything bad from the lore and sterilizing it, making it toothless so no snowflake can be offended. Give them power and they will become facists themselves, just not right, but left-wing.
Speaking for myself, I don’t think the setting is offensive, just that it’s lost it’s satirical quality. What bad aspects of the lore do you see people wanting to remove?
Bruh, you’d sooner make things up and attack me before condemning someone naming themselves after a Nazi, defending them in the process. Your “political agenda” is far more questionable here.
And I don’t use twitter, but that doesn’t stop you from acting in bad faith.
Ok I had all kinds of sophisticated things to say. in an attempt to truely hazard saving my non-political hobby from pointless politicing and puritanical ideaology policing…But it is time for something else. Its time for you to define your terms.
Define Nazi
Define Fascist
The instance I’m referring to isn’t up for debate, the real person in question identified himself and held those beliefs.
This looks like a non-sequiter to me. Unless you were responding to someone else.
Someone who holds the same or very similar views to one or both of these ideas.
This is the worst way to hold a conversation, simply slapping a wikipedia article at someone. First of all in a conversation I should not be compelled to read two entire articles and then judge their accuracy. Which, for the record, is somewhat imprecise (not a surprise, its wikipedia). One should succinctly define their own terms and how they are used in a discussion.
In any case the nazis were syndicalists. That is to say they believed in a bottom up revolution of the common man into labour unions, these unions would form syndicates to represent their interests, which would then restructure the goverment in alignment with the collective interests of the people. This is important because it describes the structure of a fascist/nazi state. Everything was built up on ascending heirarchies from the individual, into the union, into the state. Of course the reality of establishing a rigid hierarchy like this is it is instantly a tyranny the second the dictator gets their hands on the levers. Howevermuch he claims to be working ‘for the people’. The evils of facism being self-evident and baring no further discussion: This is NOT how the imperium of man is organized.
The imperium of man is an EMPIRE with a court of high lords and a senate that administrate the holdings of a (currently indisposed) regent (the emperor). They do so by installing or enshrining a system of planetary governor’s. Each planet’s political system is up to the planet itself with systems ranging from democracy to total tyranny. The tyranny of various political states in the Imperium of man, and the common structure of those tyrannies, closely resembles a feudal system of lords and houses over top of a deseperate peasantry. A miserable thing indeed.
The only thing these two systems share in relation to one another is this one detail: Humanity is human-supremacist. That is to say they believe there is an inevitable and natural conflict that will emerge between the human and the alien (a racial struggle) and that humanity must win at any cost. This is what the german third reich believed as well, just of other groups of humans. Its why they killed so many other people ultimately. Because they believed they were at war with all the other races and that that war just hadn’t started yet. But this isn’t even necessarily fascist, its just what the german nazis believed. I mean its a horrible and evil ideology, but likeni said. The Imperium is a grab bag of all the bad ideas from the last 10,000 years of humanity.
Very true, I’ve become tired over time after multiple people have been coming at me in this thread. Sorry that I’m not properly engaging anymore.
Is it from that thread where dude was using troll nickname? So? Can you imagine i don’t care of such things like words in the internet? Well if they don’t lead to crime, or maybe break the law. If someone is using nickname Anders Breivik, then it’s just stupid edgelordy and childish, that’s it, noone has died or being hurt by such trolling.
You are also missing the point:
So if you don’t want to contact with some group of people, be glad they show their views, cause you can make a choice to avoid them now. Like once during V2 there joined 2 dudes with nicknames show they are supporting war in Ukraine, i just disband the party, without crying on the forum “boo hooo, there is a problem in Warhammer Fantasy”
You act like that. Your mentality is like that. Slasher games like Darktide maybe attract some maniacs who like to rip people apart irl, so it’s the problem in a whole genre or what? There are millions of people in wh40k hobby yet you bring some screenshot from discord as an evidence like it is some rule how wh40k fans are acting. Your rhetoric is the same as some politicians use when mass shooting happens “oh uh, they played shooters, shooters are bad” wtf are you even talking about. Wh40k’s slogan even “In the grim darkness of the far future”, how isn’t it self explanation? So yeah, there is a problem, it’s in people like you who are trying to be a policmen.
I knew this thread was going to get good fast.
I don’t think we need to overthink the whole question of fascism, we’re really just talking about guys showing up to 40K games with nazi pins & buttons.
You reject the idea that the imperium is fascistic so what’s your take on the original question, is the human-supremacist empire saying anything about the real world, satirically, allegorically?
well you didn’t ask me but i would answer that 40k shows how easily we can justify the extreme.
“imperium is horrible, but they have to be because the threat on their doorstep”, we aren’t supposed to root for the empire but simply because they are human and under constant threat we see semblance of valor in that.
FANTASY > 40k