Before I get going, Sienna doesn’t need to be great again. She’s already great. If by “great again” you mean bring back BW sleepwalker build then it’s a fat no from me, and virtually everyone I play with. BW with Kaboom, F and Block was a terrible blight on the game and should never see the light of day ever again. Ditto Wigglemancer.
Unchained is already powerful and now has some versatility for people to play a support build, assault build or hybrid build. Giving her famished flames would boost her ranged into OP meme build territory. Using a Health Potion, Her Ult, and Purple pot she can already put 70-80 RMB spam fireballs (+barrage)( downrange and pummel bosses - also putting her into red-zone for melee. Adding famished flames would make Sienna UC absolutely avoid melee which is the opposite of how she’s currently played (by me at least).
Adding smiter to UC would offer wider weapon choices I suppose, but she’s not in a terrible place of being forced into 1 or 2 weapons.
I run Crowbill and with damage stacks she can reliably kill elites and CW pretty damn quick actually. No need to change this at all. THP on Kill using crowbill would put it into Permanent THP full territory. It’s already quite daft how much THP you can get with dagger tbh.
TL;DR - Sienna needs some adjustments made by a scalpel > some fine tuning. Some of your suggestions are like attempting surgery with a battleaxe > very heavy handed and likely to cause more harm than good.
because you went on to suggest removing the downsides
This whole thread has been pretty much stating that Sienna is currently not balanced and that to fix that you want to rework the classes into a different state that is also unbalanced and then “fix” them from there by power creeping the hell out of them. It’s like solving one problem by creating 2 more
Not really, as I explained before, I think those 3 talents are unique and would make great passives.
I since recant the idea of adding any of those talents on Pyro as it’d be OP.
I still Iike the idea of Famished Flames on Unchained, as I’d take that trade off, though Lingering Flames may be the better fit.
The remaining idea’s, I don’t see anything wrong with.
Why shouldn’t Unchained have Smiter? Why can’t Pyro have THP on crit + headshot?
unchained having smiter is fine but that’s less a sienna issue specifically and more that the stagger talent system just sucks in general
Ranger should have smiter, Foot Knight should have smiter, Engineer shoul- you get the idea. THP on crit+headshot and THP on kill are fine but again that’s more to do with issues with the THP system generally than with Sienna in particular.
Understandable, but there’s also some very heated arguments that Shade and WHC are OP as well, and the culprit is how both have access to an ult that grants 100% crit chance.
I just think, since it’s so easy for Pyro to maintain high heat, and since she can already match UC’s damage output in melee down to the decimals, I think buffing Pyro’s melee even further will just open a door for more grumpiness from people still waiting for her role as the Caster to get more love.
I pretty much agree with nothing in the OP or at least with very few. I am especially tired about the obsession with Smiter and character xyz should have Smiter. Your argumentation in that context is perplexing. You say she is a tank career. However, if we look at two other tank careers (IB and FK) you see that they are usually used as crowd control units which have stagger and THP talents mirroring that. Which means that Unchained should NOT have Smiter if she is meant as tank/crowd control.
Giving Unchained Famished Flames is a bad idea as well, since it drives her more to a staff using career. She already has options where she can be played range heavy, she doesn’t need Famished Flames on top of that which would damage her melee play because it makes Fire Sword broken. Actually, for that last reason no Sienna careers should have Famished Flames because it cripples melee choice (example: what do you think is the percentage of Battle Wizard’s NOT using Fire Sword?).
Also Lingering Flames should not exist in its current form. There should be not time unlimited in the game. Period. Make it longer twice or thrice but not unlimited. And it should not damage superarmor!.
Making Volcanic Force a passive has to be some bad joke as well. Battle Wizard is already nuking everything left and right, why should she be buffed. I agree that the tier 2 talents need replacements but just because in their current form they break the game on different levels (hyper-synergy on Fire Sword, unlimited cheese).
If you want to give her more “personality” then:
Let Unchained as she is with a melee/support-orientation and large flexibility; if you have to change something switch Abandon and Chain Reaction because it makes sense balance-wise
Reduce the melee crit from Pyromancer in a way that you get 20 % at max (actually no career should have a crit chance above 25 %) and make her more ranged focussed
Reduce the dps output of Broken Wizard all over the board but increase her stagger and area denial abilities, let Battle Wizard the career which CONTROLS the battlefield but WITHOUT leveling it to gorund zero
This way you will have a melee/support-orientated class, a range-orientated class and a control-orientated-class. People will just have to let go of melee-crit Pyromancer and Broken Wizard.
I do not know if your suggestions is the way to go but I would support anything that change unchained to be more thematically an unchained (so explosion and burn based) rather that what she’s currently (a kinda generic brawler even if powerful, that, for some reason heal others).
I would refrain from removing melee pyro build as I see proposed in others posts. As it’s a fun part of her (for once, a squishy carrier have a viable alternative build which is not only a meme)
Yeah this op just seems like an unnecessary amount of powercreep and basically fixes nothing.
Most of my points have already been said in the topic so I won’t be repeating them but I feel like some peoples standards are pretty messed up if flamished/lingering was a good state for a career …
I had an idea for Unchained I want to share, I think we can all agree that Unchained is a powerful melee class with an somewhat underwhelming ult that is mostly used as an emergency vent. (Not including the talent Bomb Balm)
Which brings me to my idea, why don’t we include Wildfire’s attributes to Living Bomb as basekit, and instead rework Wildfire to apply Famished Flames (without the melee debuff) to all of Unchained’s fire damage for the duration of the new Living Bomb, we could also double the duration of burn damage as well with this talent.
My hope is that with these changes, Living Bomb on it’s own will be more than just an emergency vent, and with the new Wildfire talent, Unchained is granted an offensive ult talent that’ll let her ult do some damage as well as stop her from exploding.
With this alteration, Unchained will be able to use Famished Flames, but not as a passive, but an ultimate talent instead.
I’ve always felt WIldire should be included on Living Bomb tbh.
Not sure what Wildfire should be replaced with, essentially my thinking was a talent that would increase the power of Living Bomb as it’s a relatively weak ultimate, even with Wildfire, with Famished Flames it would have some power behind it, and also it wouldn’t be OP, as generally it wouldn’t modify Unchained’s usual play style in any meaningful way, just her ult, so from that retrospect, it should be well balanced, though I imagine Bomb Balm would still be the dominant pick on Unchained, unless THP on kill is added to her talent tree.
eh bomb balm is kinda problematic for other reasons (instant thp steroid). If wildfire were the base ult you could nerf bomb balm by making it operate the same way RV’s thp ult does where it gives 3 thp per second to allies in the radius; the overall thp gained would be the same, just not instant.
Thing is I don’t think Famished should be removed from battle wizard.
THP on kill wouldn’t do anything to make bomb balm less popular in its current form, especially since on-kill sucks against skaven and is outdone by cleave on anything that isn’t an elite
Perhaps I should be more clear, with this newer idea, I’m not suggesting you take Famished off BW, I mean we take the effect, the bonus to 150% burn damage, and apply it to Wildfire.
Famished Flames is a passive talent that increases 150% burn damage for the entire game, the new Wildfire talent that I’ve proposed would only grant an increase to burn damage for the duration of Living Bomb.
Considering the previous idea, I think this is a more fair and balanced suggestion.
This is most likely true, and it is true that THP on kill ceases to be useful against Skaven.
My thinking was, a crowbill unchained with THP on kill most likely will be able to keep her THP up in combat and may find she doesn’t need to rely on Bomb Balm anymore, assuming this to be true, then that would mean a Unchained would only pick it to play medic, or as you pointed out, for Skaven encounters.
Not really, considering Unchained’s ult is supposed to be a “bomb”
What else can you really do with a bomb?
Besides, plenty of ultimate talents do just that, WS has one talent that just addes 1 additional arrow to trueflight volley, and another talent which let’s her fire a powerful AP arrow. Then when you look at BH, his choices are essentially all about damage.
that’s a fundamental mechanics change though that’s actually a really good example of a game changing ult talent. No one really cares for the 4th arrow one though, yeah.
BH ult talents, while they have their issues, are all playstyle oriented and change a fair amount. I can’t think of any ult talents in the game where it’s literally just extra % damage on an ult and that’s all there is to it
That actually is what Wildfire does, it increases stagger power predominately, it also applies a burn aura for, 10s? Which helps get slave rats off you, does nothing to elites, though the initial explosion now staggers them, I can’t remember if it applies to monsters or CW though.
bomb level knockback against enemies. 