I think stuff like dueling sword spam throw that calculation off hard. Crushers die pretty rapidly on Havoc 40, but that’s cause there’s usually 3 or more people spamming dueling sword pokes. Hordes die pretty quick, but that’s because someone with infinite aoe dot stack applications is taking care of that.
I think Havoc is pretty terribly balanced for non meta loadouts. Trying to cleave hordes with e.g. a shock maul, a weapon designed to have decent cleave and does it fine on Aurics, is just frustrating and almost pointless.
In other words, while I like super thick hordes I think they went a bit too far in the direction of making stuff hard to cleave to the point where people literally stop bringing cleave weps and just use dueling swords instead. Why bring a shock maul for hordes when you can just bring a dueling sword to twoshot crushers through the HP buffs and take care of the hordes with shredder nades and flamers? Not to mention that with the shock maul you aren’t killing that h40 crusher in under 20 seconds.
Havoc mechanics should encourage bringing cleave weps for variety, but the current implementation does the opposite.