you are correct, tho providing cheats is unlawful in some countries, and I’d assume nexus would try to avoid any legal actions, or hold their neck out for any modder if pressured.
Devs most likely can pressure them in pulling anything, even their entire category, I’d think.
I don’t want to make you sigh any louder, but this is the prevailing reasoning/rationalization over in the modder’s discord, by 1-2 moderators and big names there, who OFC have a conflict of interest.
“If it’s on Nexus it’s whitelisted” is what they think and live by, and they push that narrative as do many others, so it has become the default narrative for a great many.
It does raise an interesting possibility though, since FS won’t take a firm stand one way or the other, they can unambiguously and publicly state their relationship with any 3rd party mod hosting sites like Nexus; it’s a way for them to have their cake and eat it too.
Clear up the most likely fantastical notion that Nexus presence==FS approval.
Since I didn’t get to respond to this in the previous thread, doing so now.
Yes I’m very sure. On both counts (design intent AND being ugly). I’m positive I’ve read a Q&A or interview regarding VT2 and one of the Devs explaining how features like visible enemy health bars had been intentionally left out due to going against the design intent: prioritising atmosphere, and immersion. They don’t want to be an overly arcady experience. This is an opinion I entirely agree with, and it doesn’t matter how nice you make the health bars themselves look, them existing in any capacity in game is and always will be an eyesore to me.
Again to be clear I’m NOT calling anyone who uses them a “cheater”, at least not in any way I think really matters.
Restrictions are as important an aspect of game design as freedom is (honestly I think more important but let’s not tangent into that discussion). By giving that extra info you are tangibly taking away other things from the experience. And if you only care about boiling the game down to a mathematical exercise clearly what health bars gives you is more important to you than what it takes away. That’s your prerogative but I don’t respect that approach to the game and will continue to call it cringe.
You even said yourself at some point the Devs chose to scrap in mission health bars. They chose to scrap it, so to circle back to the design intent I think it’s very clearly and demonstrably part of the design intent to keep them in Meat Grinder only.
To indulge Gpk, I spent a very good havoc map on doing grey only weapons with zero “cheat mods” every player in this game didn’t have them either, and their gameplay was recorded. Not particularly a fan of Gpk’s extreme aggression and hostility to myself, or toward of my friends.
Originally it was done as a response to someone who said you’d die in 3 seconds with grey weapons on ogryn in h40 but alas, derailed.
Now do it with grey autopistols noob🥱
Could have used the map for a duo, so sad
But aren’t all europeans automatically cheaters according to him? You must have some hidden cheats running in the background. Yes that must be it.
Edit: I have no analyzed the footage and determined that you knowing your dodge count and seeing who has which stim could be considered an unfair advantage.
You’ll have to do it gain. Please use a controller or a dance dance revolution pad as an input device this time.
And we did it 10 minutes faster than the last one too lol
Let’s try to summarize.
I asked, several times, the definition of what a cheat is to people who claim that several mods (how many? what mods? who knows) are cheats.
I did not get any clear answer on this. None.
My own definition is pretty clear: if Fatshark did not forbid it, it is authorized unless it blatantly breaks their rules.
However, I don’t know the definition used by players who absolutely want to label several mods as cheats. My feeling is that their definition is more a matter of opinion. They would want to forbid several mods that they think give an unfair advantage. But they are totally unable to provide a simple definition of what would fall into this category.
For example, the only definition I have read was that a mod should not allow something that you cannot do in the vanilla game. Then we added the ESP question.
At this point, I really don’t know if these players want to forbid more than 50% of the mods or if their stance is less restrictive.
With such a vague definition, NumericUI, which many people want in the game, would be a cheat. The same goes for many things, even the mod that removes the effect when blocking as a Psyker could be labeled as a cheat.
I’ve said that Fatshark should clarify the rules. I find them pretty clear, and I don’t even speak English natively. So even with the language barrier, I feel they are explicit and clear. My opinion, sorry if it sounds rude, is that several people here are simply unhappy with Fatshark’s decision but are trying to argue that the stance is not clear enough instead.
But it doesn’t matter. There is something that is not well accepted by part of the community. I believe Fatshark should clarify this.
When I asked ChatGPT to summarize the thread, it pointed out that all forum users participating in the discussion agreed on this (except maybe gpkgpk, I don’t know as he agreed at one point and disagreed at another.).
My personal position on mods is that Fatshark should publicly list the mods that are forbidden. As of now, we don’t really know what mods are banned, there is no list, no announcement. You can guess that a mod removed from Nexus might not be authorized, but since Fatshark never announces it, you cannot be sure.
Having a list of forbidden mods would confirm that the mods available on Nexus are authorized. I have read comments that make no sense. If Fatshark clearly states that they monitor the mods available on Nexus and provides a list of banned ones, then all mods not on this list and available on Nexus are therefore authorized.
As far as I’m concerned, the stance is explicit. The mods on Nexus are authorized. I just feel that some users (a minority on this forum) do not agree with Fatshark’s decisions. That’s their right. However, this is Fatshark’s game, they set the rules, and you have to abide by them.
There are solutions: you can play with PS5 players or with PC players you trust not to use any mods you consider cheats.
Here, I don’t know what to say. Calling players cheaters for using something that is authorized is totally wrong. Asking players to adopt a moral stance on this is ridiculous. I don’t have any other term, sorry. Who will define what is moral and what is not?
We are talking about a game, not a family issue. There are rules that you have to follow, that’s what the EULA is for. The developers set the rules, and you must follow them, or they can revoke your right to play their game. I don’t see what morality has to do with any of this.
“If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”
It annoys me to no end that people think this is ok. Like, do you understand what freedom of speech and expression is? What is up with the people that immediately jump to censorship when they see an opinion they don’t like?
It gets even better! You can be punished for committing a crime even if you really don’t know it is one.
To the topic:
I view my modlist as a wishlist for features the devs should implement. Rather than not having those features, capable members of the community made those features themselves.
It’s not so easy to say which mods are equivalent to cheats and which are not. It comes down to personal views. F.e. I don’t think the HP Bars and weapon attachments are cheats. Some say both are, some say one is but not the other etc.
If the mod in question existed as a basegame feature, would it break the game itsself? If that question is not a flat “yes”, it’s not a cheat.
Some of the mods are borderline cheats and do give you an advantage but none of them actively help you win by such a large degree that you wouldn’t win without them.
A cheat in my eyes is something that a human cannot replicate in any way or wins you games all on it’s own or makes the game so much easier that it no longer compares to people that don’t have the same mod/cheat.
An aimbot is a classic cheat. Having a macro that allows you to do attack combos in a way that a human cannot replicate is another cheat.
That’s a relatively poor example because the devs added numeric UI to the basegame of VT2. Clearly they don’t mind us having better info while in game or they wouldn’t have set that precident. It also doesn’t make too much sense for them to waste resources on implementing numeric UI themselves when it already exists and they can focus on something else.
It’s, at worst, bad form or conduct. It’s not wrong, it’s an opinion. People that get offended by that are also not in the wrong for disagreeing. Where they are wrong, is when they tried to shut him up. That’s not bad form anymore, that is an active attempt at censorship.
The funny part is, you could argue that having that kind of power as a dev, is immoral too. It may or may not be immoral but it’s clearly better that way than to just allow everyone to do whatever they want.
But yeah, morality has little (not nothing) to do with this. If someone is using a mod that actively ruins the experience for you, that’s probably immoral and should be looked at. Obviously, that assums you are a reasonable person and your complaint is reasonable. We all know that’s not true for some.
As I said I don’t think at all that NumericUI is a cheat.
However, what I point is the lack of clear definition of what is called a cheat by the players that have a problem with the mods.
Actually the only definition that have been given to me would result in seeing NumericUI as a cheat.
What I point is that they can’t give a clear definition of what they call cheat. Cause saying it is obviously not a cheat bring nothing to the debate. Saying we all know what mods are cheats, does the same. In fact, we don’t know at all how much and what are the mods that they consider as cheat. Yes several were quoted by the past. Based on what? that’s a mystery
In fact, I would like to know how many things they classify as cheat. And it seems a difficult question for them.
As I opened this thread, and defend the fact you can express your opinion even if I disagree with, I don’t take that for me.
But I disagree about your sentence it is an opinion. When you call someone cheater this is harassing and agressive toward an other forum user.
If that happens, it falls under the rules they made public. This is clearly stated. Then it should be reported to them.
Without surprise, I said it… everybody has its own opinion. And that’s what I tried to explain to one user…
That’s why it is not up to the players to define that, but to the developers. However, players can discuss and push to see something they consider as a problem to be fixed. Here a mod that would be considered by the community as a cheat.
But until it is allowed, then it is obviously not a cheat.
Cuz you ditched me!!! :<
Here a nice weapon to test Havoc 40 without mods.
I’ll do it eventually!!! This is legit my fav weapon (cuz it takes a whole mag to kill anything other than maniac targets), it shall be done.
think of the content… peak…
Just to make this clear, I agree with most of what you said. I just pointed a few things out that I have a different stance on.
I’m making no comment about that 
I’m just saying that thinking that numeric UI being a cheat, is a poor example since VT2s example is right there.
True enough. I’d find it difficult to form a explicit definition and there is a point to keeping it vague.
The same way the law is not perfectly explicit, it’s vague on purpose to make it harder to find loopholes.
We will never get an explicit definition from them because that would make it harder for them to moderate.
That sentance of mine is not an opinion, it’s factual.
Calling someone anything, is an expression of opinion, irrespective of what’s being said about that person. It can be agressive or harmful or even illegal but it’s always an opinion. Obviously there are constraints as some things are too hateful to say to someone else but calling someone a cheater is not that.
In order for freedom of speech to exist, you have to allow and deal with being offended.
Think of it in the opposite way; if he wasn’t allowed to call others cheaters, would he still have freedom of expression?
That’s exactly the way I see it too.
The only arbiters of what a “cheat” is that have any meaning or value regarding Darktide is Fatshark, they get to make up their own definition and stick to it as closely (or not) as they desire. If individual players consider other players who use X/Y/Z mods to be cheaters for their use of said mods, that’s their prerogative, but that doesn’t mean it’s anything but screaming into the void either. Broadly speaking, Fatshark doesn’t appear to care about any of this as long as its not actually bypassing/breaking anything (e.g. you can use Decode Helper to minimize time spent on the puzzle, but you still need to be out of the fight for a minimum amount of time that FS has accounted and designed for, you can’t just bypass the puzzle entirely). Fatshark has the ability to do something about these mods if they desire, to date they have not and aren’t any more likely to do so in the future.
There’s a lot of conversation to be had about mods, there are good points that players with gobs of mods have easier times defeating content than players without said mods, that mod usage isn’t an option on all platforms, and how those issues impact game design and balance. However, arguing in quixotic circles over and over about what a “cheat” is, when the only relevant entity has been pretty consistent for years now regarding their stance, is probably just wasting keystrokes.
Bravo! Your base skill was never in question, kudos!.
All I did was highlight 2 of ESP mods you used and you guys did the rest.
Here’s the issue:
Yous (vous/ustedes) also pretended it as if the ESP cheaty mods and other mods people use don’t provide an appreciable advantage, they do and that’s why people use them. It’s obvious by these types of vids and OFC I tried them myself.
You then made comment about skill in pugs when ~50% of them don’t have access to your “helper” mods and another ~25% don’t use any mods.
This in addition to you types chiming in on anything balance related, you don’t get a say.
But still, bravo! I wonder how many more brand new alt account you and your buddies will create to flag these posts too.
P.S. Aww , did one of them delete their trolling account?
