Seems like you’re purposefully not even reading the full comments you’re quoting. Additionally, you may not be aware, but mediocre has a connotation of being below standard or sub-par.
And a class can be simultaneously tanky in some respects and not in others. Being essentially immune to being guard broken or surrounded makes HM very tanky. If you don’t know how to avoid eating overheads, it’s less tanky. Also, no class is immovable against specials and monsters. That’s a silly thing to say.
Is HM as good as shade or BW? No. But those classes are insanely overtuned. Even FK is obscene in it’s own right. HM is on par with most classes and is balanced well.
They’re your words. If that isn’t what you meant, I advise being more detailed.
I can’t help it if you’re trying to derail a thread about design into a balance topic. You’re using conjecture against evidence and you’re contradicting yourself.
The definition of the word is right in front of you and the intent made clear, but you’re free to interpret things how you will.
Learning to communicate effectively means understanding connotations. Also, being able to understand things without having to break down every single detail would make debates much more productive.
Your inability to understand the concepts does not mean I contradict myself.
Tedious in what way? It’s constructive criticism. You’re insisting you’re being misunderstood and I’m explaining how you can avoid being misunderstood. Not everyone who comes in and listens/reads a conversation is going to understand what you’re supposedly implying by what you say. When you say something like this:
People may understand it as nothing in the game is going to move her. They may not think of all the ways a player can be moved. If you spend even a tiny bit of effort to elaborate a little, it helps people understand you and where you’re coming from. Otherwise it comes off as things such as exaggeration, purposeful omission, and so on. Whether that’s true or not, that’s how it’ll be interpreted. Because otherwise, why word it that way?
You’re talking about effectively changing the definition or intent of something because you feel it should be something else. Connotation would have more relevance but:
It’s like arguing the moon isn’t there even though it’s right there in front of you. Not everyone is going to understand the connotations in a subject, so it’s important to avoid relying on that and speak in a way that’s more clearly understood by a large and diverse audience. Facts are facts and evidence is evidence. People can see it and understand it without having to go “Did they mean…?”. No connotations necessary. No mind reading necessary. This is exactly what it is.
You’ve provided nothing to substantiate why she’s fine other than you believe she’s fine because she can do X, Y, Z, despite the major focus being her design and why it is greatly flawed in its current state. It’s productive when you keep on point, talk about relevant things, and provide evidence to substantiate your claims. Otherwise it’s conjecture and why would balance be based on “he said she said”? It’s also important to not have a thread go all over the place when there is a key topic.
As seen here, you are clearly not working with the knowledge base of someone who has played this game. Anyone who has played this game knows that you pull Monsters away from hordes and fight them separately. No one would want your frontline to hold a monster. This means you would be getting hit by the monster while trying to attack. This example clearly shows that you are either debating in bad faith or lack the requisite knowledge base to engage effectively in this conversation.
In addition, this shows that you do not understand the concepts of backline or frontline. This is another piece of knowledge I assumed you to have. If you wish to learn more about the subject, there are guides on steam and posts in this very forum regarding the “roles” one can play in Vermintide. At no point, in any guide or conversation, does frontline mean holding a monster and not moving or dodging specials.
If you are offended by me saying you lack the knowledge base to debate effectively, then stop being purposefully tedious.
Or you can just agree to disagree and walk away, since I feel like both of you made your points a while ago, disagreed, forgot what they were and devolved into arguing semantics.
On further playing, the Crit Ultimate can really make an impact in terms of a melee DPS build. The problem is that you need to gain at least 3-5 stacks to feel even close to the clear that any other melee DPS has. The huge problem with this is that it only applies to Hordes and as mentioned many times in this thread, positioning doesn’t allow for it. This leaves you with few chances to reach these stacks.
A new suggestion I have for this Ultimate, is to make it’s duration unlimited, but grant 1% Crit Chance per enemy hit, and limit it to 15%. This still doesn’t solve the issue of positioning though, unless they allow you to get stacks from Ult > block-cancelling in front of enemies.
Even with landing consistant 5 stack 25% Crit stack, the clear is still nowhere close to Shade, who can run behind the Hordes and left click. It just feels like everything HM can do Shade can do 10x better. Other than passive defence of course, but then offence can be the best defence.
Building full push power with the weapons other than her Shield doesn’t make her a solid frontline. It just makes you a solo tank, as Elite density must still be kited (unlike Kruber/Bardin Shield slamming weapons).
Being able to survive solo and clutch runs seems like the only thing she’s good at, but then why not take Shade or Waystalker and do enough damage so that the situation of last person standing never arises?
You’re not really raising any points to OP, who has made a great well thought out thread(backed up with evidence of some of their points), it’s just insults and reaching. Stop before you embarrass yourself further.
That’s my thinking throughout this whole thread, Maiden is extremely strong and versatile class, it needs no attention right now. It’s playable at any difficulty and many people find it fun to play.
While there is a lot of other classes that just suck currently and those are not discussed at all and will prolly stay the same.
Well, specials and bosses will make everyone move. That kind of argument doesn’t make sense. If hook is coming for you as IB, you better move or you’re done.
She does decent damage overall & can one shot any special with longbow - which shoots pretty fast.
No, just no. Not in Cata. You go try solo FK (without Shield) in Cata Tried it yesterday, you’re not doing anything. Unless you get very lucky with pots/bombs.
Makes me think a community poll would be good to see which classes the community thinks are currently in the worst spot. I know it’s been discussed ad nauseum here but my vote would still go to Slayer. Dunno who I’d vote second though.
Some of the across the board issues like temp health and bad stagger talent synergy make it really hard to disentangle what careers are actually in a bad place in their own right.
Do you have any input on the things shared in the OP?
Currently, there are threads about other careers. There have been others aside from the most recent ones too. If you don’t see something being discussed about other careers that you think need attention, make a thread about it. Sometimes people know what’s going on but not much is said(or it’s on different forums like steam or reddit) or people just haven’t gotten around to posting it. It’s also important to note what specifically is being talked about, otherwise a thread can get cluttered with too many different topics(and/or get off-topic) and it’s best to keep the main focus of each thread consistent with the topic/OP.
That aside, if threads like this are made and serve a bunch of constructive criticisms towards specific careers(in this case, issues with the Handmaiden’s design), it should give Fatshark something to look at and work towards improving.
@Kitten Something there could be more of in VT2 is “blended” talents. For a hybrid career like Handmaiden, it’d make a lot of sense. Obviously mixing things like offense/utility, offense/defense, etc. could become strong if numbers are too high, but it’d make for an appropriate design and numbers can be tweaked.
A career like Unchained, for example, has a really good overall design and synergy but was implemented poorly. Handmaiden is just a mess overall and it’s like there was no clear vision on how her 2.0 version should turn out or something.
I forced myself to play as HandMaiden few weeks back with Elvish Greatsword and Longbow. Usually I don’t play this character at all. Suboptimal melee weapon didn’t help, but I got used to it. I’m using the following build right now:
I doubt its fully optimised for this weapon set up, but it works fairly well, especially now I (almost) learnt to judge the dash ability distance so I don’t end up killed instantly by dozens of hits. The trick is to take advantage of the attack speed buff, combined with push attack crit chance buff and swift slaying. After that you just combined it with bleed and longbow when needed.
I’d highly recommend this build for 2H Sword. It doesn’t make it extremely viable, but as I mentioned earlier in this thread, landing a good 3-5 stack Ults makes it compete with other melee clears, but only with the stacks, sadly:
Tried it yesterday, you’re not doing anything. Unless you get very lucky with pots/bombs.