First time im calling for a nerf

Seems strange that I’ve only ever seen one IB use Drakefires effectively in V2 and that was right at the start. I think he was experienced from V1. Other than videos of people ofcourse. Most people don’t realise they can use them constantly and don’t really have to stand still directly behind people to use them well.

They have huge potential, but I’m not sure it’s something everyone will manage. If we see every Bardin start using them like this, I’ll be behind a nerf (8:30mins to skip to the push-attack combo):

Doubt it will happen though. He’s fairly balanced.

@kitten
Seems the problem at that level of play comes down to using temp health to vent, its the only thing making them as spammable as they are.
If they changed the vent mechanic to eat up a much higher amounts of temp health than normal health i think it’d stop the abuse.
Personally when using the drake weapons i don’t bother venting, but thats only because i havent put enough time into the pistols and the gun doesn’t need it.

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They’re already pretty much as weak as can reasonably be. Iunno if I’d consider idiocy and ppl not using them correctly as a good cause to pwn em. Tbh, if it wasn’t for Pistols I wouldn’t ever touch IB with a 10ft pole as it would just feel soooo slow and impotent. Drake Gun gets “numbers” but it’s just so overly defensive and it’s all just mindless trash kills. All his other ranged options are a tad tedious.

They already got rid of the stagger on RMB blast so it pretty much just gives IB some much needed reach and consistency. W/o it, he’s in the same boat as Merc and would be worse off than FK due to IB’s general lack of mobility. It also helps him deal a not-atrocious amount of boss damage as all of his other options vs boss are pretty terrible. GAxe + Pistols lets you at least contribute in boss fights.

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I mean… I agree with you, but people need to not use a drakegun on like a single chaos warrior, just constantly polluting my screen with fire is awful, and its very strong vs hordes to the point they are meaningless, pistols on the other hand do everything reasonably well, no reason not to spam them constantly and basically be an idiot, but the knockback they have is c@ncer, basically just makes it harder for every other range to do their job appropriately. I constantly find myself waiting like 5 hours for an idiot dwarf to kill 1 SV when I could easily do the same thing in 1 shot (as could everyone else in the group) if he wasn’t facepulling all the trash.

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Definitely feel people can be assholes with the drakegun, if i use it I’m really conscious of farting in people’s faces/firing line.

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As I already said multiple times on multiple topics, like here, here and here the main problem is heat sink, that allows infinite ranged spam, and not the weapons themselves. Yes, some of them might also need minor heat generation tweaking, but what really needs to be done - venting should be introduced back into the game. Cause right now god only knows what this mechanics does and why does it exist.

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Personally I like drakes, because they allow you to play single-purposed meele weapons, and don’t feel misreable during horde attacks. The one thing I hate is players constantly doing friendly damage with drakes, especially when they dodge back in front of you and keep shooting, like you’re the IB, why don’t you stay in front?? Aside from it, weapon needs to be mastered to be strong. So I’m fine with how powerfull it can be, because it rewards skill. But I can agree, that compared to other weapons, pistols are a touch ridiculous.

As for drakegun - it has very negative synergy with super mobile careers, such as zealot, and othervise pretty borring to use, unless you love to see the world on fire. IB in general is a bit of a newbe career, with his insane forgiveness, so it only makes sence to give him simple and powerfull weapon, which functionallity is limited by it’s simpleness. And I don’t find drakegun to be that powerfull, you just don’t feel rewarded for horde clearing because of how simple it is. Yet again, it allows you to run shields, pick and two-haded axe, and feel cool about them being rather dangeorus at horde clearing.

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IMO the biggest issue with drakefire weapons that FS gives it exclusively to IB. It encourages lots of people to play RDD IB, they don’t care that IB career designed to be a tanky frontliner with tonns of health, damage mitigation and passive that entirely blocks attack every couple of seconds. Personally I whould’ve been OK if pistols/drakegun were RV evclusive weapons, this career meant to play mostly ranged and having such weapons in it’s arsenal is nothing special.

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Stop spreading all those secret techniques! :stuck_out_tongue: Btw: Works actually pretty well with HS, coach and 1h mace.

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Oh no, we’ve just given Beam Staff a buff too.

Then again, you can spam shotgun more effectively as her anyway.

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Weapon switch on beam shotgun is too wonky for shennanigans like this imho, but yeah, with 2h mace on Sienna, it might me worth trying out.

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I second this. With the thermal equalizer trait and Iron Drake talent you can lower the overheat for 50%. That practically means that you can shoot the guns straight for 22 seconds until you overheat. I’m not counting venting of course. With venting and loosing some health in the process you can continue to shoot for 10-20 more seconds, or even more if you manage to properly use temp health for venting purposes.

Heat Sink’s pretty underwhelming on Pistols. Only really solid pick is Thermal Equalizer, because IB’s crits are extremely unreliable even if you maxed them out and he’s better off hitting Power vs breakpoints anyways as a result. You do have to manage venting constantly on IB. Sienna Heat Sink is more reliable but to max damage output you do still need to vent there too when you don’t get crits (the alternative is stopping DPS altogether and waiting for a safe vent target), and failure to do so can/will get someone killed.

I think the drakefire weapons are some of the more balanced ranged weapons.

Pistols are good against hordes/ambients and alright at boss damage, but mediocre/alright at special killing, mediocre at distance, and near useless against armor. But you get infinite ammo with temp health heat management, so that’s nice.

Drakegun is even worse. Amazing at horde clear, but terrible at armor, terrible at special killing, terrible at boss damage, and has terrible range. It’s then coupled with low movement while firing, the flames obscuring the field/enemies, and hits cancelling the charge up.

Ironbreaker doesn’t have an offensive ult either, so he can’t make up for his drakefire ranged weakness against chaos warriors/stormvermin and has to switch to melee. And his melee weapons are good, but he doesn’t have the best melee weapons in the game (halberd/elf/dual axes) either.

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first time calling for nerf and you choose the drakeguns? lol they are perfectly balance and even useless imo.
flamethrower has no use other than hordes and drake pistols do little to no damage to anything.
what i hate is people who use shield and drake pistols you know you have to carry them.

I might be wrong about heatsink on Drake Fire pistols in particular because I rarely ever use them, but do you agree with the general idea, that talents and traits need to be tweaked and not heat weapons, which are fine and more or less balanced without them? That talents and traits is what allows staffs and drake weapons go haywire?

Also not saying that drakefire pistols are OP. I don’t use them enough to make such conclusions.

I agree.

Agree

They’d be a lot slower to the point they wouldn’t be able to keep up with, say WS or BH anymore where right now all the classes who specialise in ranged damage + IB have a really tight balance (with flame weapons having a kinda unimportant numbers advantage if the director spawns more/larger hordes).

Yeah I originally used Hunter as I was trying to improve boss damage and blast output but found crits too unreliable than switched to Heat Sink, which was ok but still not reliable enough to make a real difference, then ultimately settled on Thermal Equalizer as it’s reliable, consistent, and you always get the full value. Used properly right now, even with 50% overheat reduction, you’re still venting your Pistols constantly taking a lot of vent damage that you’re offsetting with temp health and NB (you still have to be mindful though). It slows you down too much when hot to not vent (though I see a lot of IBs try to play that way). It takes very cowboy twitchy style shooting and there’s constant dodging, twitching, and positioning involved with both the shot and the blast in horde environments. Factor in that min:max demands a lot of weapon switching + melee on top of the management considerations and it results in a very busy and skill oriented playstyle on an otherwise very slow/bland character. Effort:output, it feels just about perfect to me.

On Sienna, when people talk of never having to vent it’s because they’re using “free vent on ult” instead of 30% Ult reduction. It may be a lil cheesy but, output wise, it’s pretty bad and wasteful. It’s kinda like using a shield, in its own way. Just kinda impotent. With just Heat Sink + maximum crit rate, your output is much better (especially where it counts since you need Head to address a lot of situations when using a Beam Staff) and you do still have to vent a great deal (especially considering her small health pool), so the management aspect is even more intensive than on IB. Can never trust RNG to keep you alive (read:not self-immolated) and Heat Sink ultimately just keeps things interesting by insuring your tempo is exciting and that you can keep up with other classes. Pyro just has a really low skill floor and allows for an above average skill ceiling with a lot of versatility.

If you haven’t, it’s worth trying Sienna out in VT1 to get a feel for what I mean. Even with Haste and HoD, for example, she’s just soooooooo slow compared to everything else in the game and the amount of heat management is a lil obnoxious bordering on unfun. W/o Heat Sink, we’d be worse off than that due to the lack of any other consistent mitigating elements and the class’d be a real slog, imo.

Right, but people don’t care, basically every IB is using it on single ambient mobs, or like a solo Chaos Warrior just because of how easily it clears hordes. All im saying is nothing should clear hordes that trivially on Legend in general, sure the weapon has its drawbacks and personally I think its terrible due its lack of effectiveness against specials but I would still like to see it changed. The whole set up for IB is basically one massive crutch.

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