Feedback On Unresponsive Gunplay, Sharpshooter Veteran, Bad Autoguns And Others [Megapost]

Rather then thinking about the end game players and your whales; who will grind through all of this muck early game and features that make the game hard to get into, they should work from the bottom line up.

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I do love the meatgrinder. Definitely the best testing arena they’ve put into their games yet, though the bar is low. But damn, this QA job wasn’t worth the $-40 they’re paying me…

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I have no idea how you made a post this long while completely ignoring the fact that toughness automatically regenerates as long as youre near teammates (who e.g. are also shooting or doing anything ranged).

Kinda instantly invalidates your 3 pages of drivel.

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Agreed. Great post!
Not to mention the bugs with skills not working properly or just plain bad design.
All of this is really killing the hype. And I already see a steady decrease in numbers of people playing it.
If they don’t fix these problems fast, I fear for the future of this game. And I really wanted it to work, I love Tide games. Oh well, let’s hope for the best.

While a fantastic post and in-depth breakdown of some of the game’s problems and many other details, you have to admit Veteran is the best class in the game currently.

Veteran is also my main since the closed beta and when I hit level 30 I feel like I had one of the easiest leveling processes ever, playing mostly on Malice difficulty which is where I feel the game shines the most.

I just find it a little funny and if you’re going to complain about some things about the current most viable and arguably strongest pick in the game, you should definitely see how the others are handling things.

You mean swapping over to one of the worst classes currently? Zealot got hit extremely hard from the closed beta from what I’ve heard and seen personally. Getting my hands on one now, they feel extremely underwhelming. They are far from being the melee powerhouses they are advertised as with a conflicting identity crisis between being a tanky brawler and a suicide berserker.

Putting a chainsword in my Veteran’s hands or a Zealot’s, I honestly can’t tell the difference.

I agree on an earlier point that these should not have had their values cut in half from the last beta but Veteran’s toughness regeneration talents are from being “worthless” as you describe it. You also say only as if you skipping out on choosing a talent is a viable option?

Speaking for yourself here, I’ve had a much easier time regenerating toughness as Veteran than any other class specifically because of it’s ability of excelling at ranged combat or the simple act of being away from enemies.

I will admit It is a big reason why the OTHER classes at least try to make ranged combat the backseat because they literally have no other way to regenerate toughness most of the time as you had mentioned here, save for Psyker:

Looping back to the earlier paragraph, this is exactly why Veterans have it the easiest IMO. They have the sole source of “ranged” (firearms) toughness restoration. What do you think a Zealot or Ogryn is gonna do here? They have a whopping 100 toughness and if they rush forward they’re going to pay dearly for it. Pyskers have to REALLY work for their toughness regeneration as it’s a very sluggish process having to maintain their Perils.

I think you’re severely lacking to see the whole picture here. Even in your little demonstration video, you’re showing you against the basic horde enemies designed to be melee fodder? With a power sword which is one of the best melee weapons in the game?

Each kill in melee gives you about 5 - 7% of your toughness back (out of Veteran’s 200) so yeah you’re obviously going to look good here.

Even if melee toughness regeneration is “strong” everyone else gets 100 toughness? So you already have double the regeneration ability of everyone else by default, congratulations.

Let’s see you try the same thing against a couple squads of gunners on one of the many bridges that have little to no cover. Or better yet some elite shotgunners or elite gunners and see how well the A.I handles “getting locked into melee”.

You’re crying wolf about Veteran while Ogryns, Psykers and Zealots are actually getting their face torn apart by the real wolf at the moment.

While saying all of this, I’m not saying Veterans don’t need a buff, they should at least go back to their closed beta values but please at least get everyone else to the same viability level and don’t spread misinformation that x class has it better currently. They really don’t.

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I agree camo is god tier, I’m just determined to melee lol

But ranged is good, ranged is good, I always wanted Vermintide to have more ranged.

I’m just an aggressive player

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I usually play full ranged in Vermintide :smiley: Waystalker, Huntsman and Bounty Hunters are a given, but Zealot, Mercernary, Slayer and such too just cause why not? It’s fun once in a while even if it’s rather difficult in Cata to pull those off properly, but I’ve done it a few times so not impossible :slight_smile: and it spices cata games up after cata feeling kinda easy after a while

some additional regarding melee,

I thought Catachan Mark IV was amazing in CBT; like Vermintide’s Executioner sword but fun and on steroids. More fun than anything I played in Vermintide since the old fast Halberd

Mobile, athletic, precise, really felt like a swordsman

Nowadays the buffed Chainsword at high levels and mobility feels really good and is my goto on Veteran. Not quite like the Catachan Mark IV, but it can deal with Carapace

That said, pushes etc really are very different

In all honesty I just really want to be able to reload and sprint at the same time. :frowning: Stopping my reload because I need to reposition kills the flow for me.

Even if that’s just a passive thing for Veterans to be able to do since, y’know, Veteran.

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Really nice writeup, man. A lot of good points.

I have updated my post with a few things. There I compare an autogun and a lasgun. These two have “roughly” the same amount of ammo they come with but as you can see the the lasgun outclasses the autogun in every scenario.

While It only makes sense that it is unrealistic that in real life you wouldn’t switch from hipfire to aimed firing without pausing the shooting it is important that this is a video game that we are talking about. Things are simplified here, you don’t need to eat a sandwich every few hours or you’re gonna die because you’re malnourished. You join missions and then singlehandedly slay thousands of human sized cultists. You can also take a few hits in the face with a plasma pistol on sedition difficulty. It’s this way because it’s a game that is supposed to play nice and be fun. It’s not supposed to be a realistic representation of the real world but set in the universe of 40k. There is nothing that screams FICTION and FANTASY more than Warhammer. Like I said all these games add all of these gameplay mechanics for a reason. Fatshark sadly has a habit of artificially increasing the difficulty by making the player’s life harder at every cost and that includes that fairness of the game and the fun you can have while playing it. After the last beta they have cut all characters stats in half because our performance didn’t meet their quota and we didn’t die often enough.

Anyways. Yes the autoguns have less ammo like you and I said but it is important to remember that despite the fact that the lasguns are using more ammo to shoot they still deal more damage than the autogun would with all that ammo for itself. Also as presented in the video it is absolutely not true that the autogun kills quicker than the lasgun unless were are talking about the face-to-face distance where the lasgun is at max damage falloff and the autogun deals the highest dps it can without having to control the recoil that much. What you’re talking about is your projection of what would make sense. Sadly that’s not the reality.

I have not used Camo Expert all that much because I don’t like to rely on my teammates being meatshields for me. I prefer to dodge the attacks and projectiles while staying mobile at all times. Now that I think of it the Ogryn and camo combo might be very strong if not slightly OP I will test that for myself in the future but will not comment on it any further.

You said you used a lasgun which allowed you to almost never switch to melee. I don’t really know what point we’re you making because that’s essentially what I said. The lasguns are the weapons that can more or less help you actually do your job as a Veteran. I can’t agree with your argument about the braced autogun being a suitable and reliable pick because that’s what we are talking about. You are absolutely incapable of doing your job outside of your Focus Fire ability which increases your accuracy and zooms in so that you can hit the gunners easier. Without it, all you have is a horde-clear gun that can’t deal with shooters, gunners, bombers and snipers.

The one “gripe” I have with the Veteran is that he that there isn’t really a toughness replenishment perk option for autoguns if you want to kill shooters. You absolutely have to act as if you were using a lasgun and tap on their heads and not firing in bursts so that you can get weakspot kills or else you won’t get any toughness. The passive toughness is literally broken because enemies spawn under you, above you, behind you and from all sides. The regeneration will stop if there is an afking poxwalker a floor below you. If you regained toughness by killing enemies without having to headshot them… Now that would give us a lot of variety and options when making a solid build.

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I will say this camo expert is amazing and possible OP. It lets you interact with things in a group and actually get them done.

The reason camo expert is OP is because of the Chip damage introduced from teh closed beta into what we have now. Interacting with anything, this includes reviving, untying, hacking, carrying a crate, will break/stop if you take health damage. If you take all the daamge on your shield you are fine. This is why trying to rez is so difficult becuase its very hard to NOT take health damage in the game.

However this is why Camo is so OP, enemies will ignore you and go for your team while you do what ever it is you need to do, including rezing which they will target the downed player who, while being revived does not loose health (The red slowly draining healthbar.)

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