Fatshark refusal to code acceptable bots

As of 1.0.6 it is now clear you wish to force people into multiplayer by refusing to make the bots even remotely non-idiotic, at least for me, you will simply force people to leave the game. This is a regression in bot AI behaviour. The bots are the most useless they have ever been, even compared to open beta.

Yea this is a known issue. They want people to group up and play together. Not solo the game with bots. I understand it can be frustrating but it is how it is right now. when mod support comes out i am sure someone will have a fix.

Well they’re making a lot of tweaks and balance changes to the game… makes sense to wait to improve bots until after the other bigger changes are finished and community approved. Otherwise they potentially have to re-write bot AI with each patch.

But yeah, even then it may not improve. Bots in V1 were pretty terrible too. I think part of it is that the devs want people to play with other people, and the other part is making good bots (especially for a game like this) is pretty tough. Hell even Left4Dead 1 and 2 had terrible bots and those games had huge dev resources.

I’ve worked on bots/AI in Skyrim mods and DOTA 2 custom games/bots and let me tell you that it’s not a simple or fast task. I don’t blame them for focusing on the core aspects of the game first.

I’ll likely be doing some bot modding for this as well and maybe even for enemies if all this is included. It depends on how their modding is implemented.
Ideally they would have an API so we can make calls for tweaking in LUA, but little is known about what mods for this game actually entails.

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Bots are always rough. Make bots too good and they are better than many players. Make bots too bad and they are just an anchor that weighs down a team. And even when bots are in a good state people still complain about them.

There are alot of changes that keep happening, I expect bots will vary continue in effectiveness from patch to patch for the upcoming future. Prolly for another month or so. After the game has been out about 3 months in total I imagine things will stabilize somewhat.

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Or maybe like v1, one guy in his spare room will code a bot mod singlehandedly for what bots should be and put fatshark to shame. I’m betting on that being the case.

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Since that is going to happen anyway, why should Fatshark waste time on it?

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I’m really hopeful for it. It’s much easier when there are official mod tools. Much easier to organize as well if they have a specific folder more mods so that we don’t have to stuff them all in the game or binaries folder. That becomes a mess. :laughing:

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I play solo with bots on legend and I win the vast majority of the time. The bots work fine for me.

Bot intelligence is often subjective. It depends on if you want the bots to play according to you, or if you’re willing to play according to them.
I find success in the latter as well.

I feel like there are only three real problems with the bots, and not all of them are solvable - and I’m not counting tomes/grims as an issue here, since that’s a development decision.

  1. Failure to rez the player at odd times.
    I find the majority of my runs fail because I go down, and then the bots stand there ignoring me while I bleed out. They are better about it than in the first game, but since if the sole human player dies the run ends, it feels like rezzing should be a higher priority that killing the last of a horde while one slave rat kills me. I get that sometimes there are just too many and they can’t. But they should try more.

  2. Tunnel vision on a boss.
    I’m not sure if any real problem can be done about this, because it’s so complex. But if there is a boss and a horde, the bots will almost always go down because they will be so focused on the boss that they won’t even defend themselves from backstabs. Now, I’m very glad they are so much better at fighting bosses; they got rekt so hard in game one by them that my solo Cata runs were entirely built around “can I kill the boss before it manages to kill the bots?”

  3. Bots getting stuck.
    This is the biggest problem that has a clear answer (at least in terms of it needing to be fixed). There are some spots where the bots will get stuck every time until the player moves a sufficient distance away that they teleport. A couple off the top of my head; the hole in the wall you shoot with the cannon on Righteous Stand, and behind the wrecked carriage that blocks the road (forcing the detour through the small cave) on Fort Bracksenbrucke (which often occurs because you go for the common item drop there, they follow, and then can’t move).

I’m okay with them not picking up books; The bots can handle Legend okay if you gear them out well and play well. This means that even without taking books you’re not locked out of the chance of reds. They fight pretty well, I can’t complain there.

For me, just fixing the ‘getting stuck’ issue would be the biggest QoL bot improvement I could ask for.

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It’s not even that they keep fighting while you bleed, it’s that they see you down, come stand next to you and - keep standing. Not fighting, not reviving, standing. Without any enemies nearby.

That one is the biggest real bug with the bots, imo. Getting stuck is another, so is wandering down cliff edges, but that’s about it. They can kite the bosses (even if they’re too eager to keep their direction sometimes); while they tend to waste healing, that’s predictable; they require manipulation to carry tomes, but that’s intended; and they’re very good at sniping specials. Besides, we still get their passive to help us in case of some careers.

So yeah, I think the bots are mostly good right now. Their failures are mostly expected ones, their behavior is predictable and you can plan around that, they’re useful in most situations, but they’re still worse than even a moderately-skilled player.

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I now spend a lot of time on Recruit to help my newbie friend level, and honestly, the bots ain’t half bad, compared to some players we find on Quick Play… Veteran is a lot better in that sense.

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I don’t ask for much, just make the bots stay near the player, they will rub across the whole map and leave you to die to melee a special. if a monster spawns in a chokepoint they wont follow you to an open area they fight it right there and die no matter how far away you run. They will literally just stand in AOE attacks. all this can be easily fixed, make the bots stay near players

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It comes real big problem when there’s no player is online in nearby area.

And these are biggest problem, imo. And there’s one more thing I want for bots; make them grab the item as soon as player ping/oder it.

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I have noticed that as well, that sometimes if bots are pinged to get something in an awkward position they freeze and/or die. Like by the first grim on screaming bell they can’t get the ammo near it. Or on festering ground they keep jumping off and breaking their legs for the second grim.

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I can confirm, bots are incredibly stupid.

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A wild 2-year old thread appears! Locking for now, but feel free to start a new topic, especially while BBB is still out! Great time for discussions! :smiley:

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