Thats my point really. On Malice thats fine, on Damnation it will get them overwhelmed pretty often and they generally need a good player to bail them out
In my experience most average players tend to block more than anything.
I am actually the person who spams dodge and yes, youre right, it works pretty well
When Im on a team with 3 other good players the game becomes a cakewalk on Damnation but easily half my games consist of one, two or sometimes 3 people who are way over their head.
The current explosive event has really, really highlighted this and the last few games Iv played have only been on Heresy yet people seem unable to handle the more intense nature of this particular game-mode. Im consistently the only player who doesnt go down even once.
Having someone who is experienced who can tell them to dodge in the first place does work wonders As soon as a couple of my friends actually listened to me when I told them that dodging was essential they improved dramatically.
I would dare say that YOU are actually the main reason they are pushing in to Heresy with success. Without you they would still be on Malice shouting about how unfair trappers are. I mean, they probably still are shouting about it , but at least they mostly dodge them now right?
I think game clearly differs from the vast majority of 1st person shooters and to say the game is just like any other action shooter like BF etc is, imo, and respectfullyā¦ wrong.
Eh I donāt want to write a whole wall of text here, but while superficially thereās more trad FPS in BF there is actually more depth to it, though some core features like locked class-specific weapons may not make it in the final game or be a 2nd class citizen if the betas of BF6 are anything to go by.
Most of the dept in BF comes from PTFOing and having vehicles in the mix, see Conquest game mode; thereās more depth if you choose to engage with it and in that respect itās similar to DT. While you could argue there are more player mechanics to master in DT some important skills are shared and are not lost when playing one or the other. Thereās a fair amount of strategy around the previously mentioned objectives, the O in PTFO, though that was very hit or miss in BF6 betas as theyāre realy trying to poach the CoD kiddies (much to my chagrin).
For the most part I think DT is somewhat safe from BF6, I have mixed feeling after the open betas and they mey dumb it down and bend too far to the CoDers and streamers, but they did promise to reduce BF6 slide spam (QQ streamers) so maybe Iām wrong.
The VT and DT have managed to eat up many, many hours for a fair amount of players given the user base, quite the feat! And still they miss the mark on many things, sadlyā¦
I mean, BF in particular has always had a fair amount of slow placed tactical approach coupled with moments of insanity while a building crumbles around you. But thats not really my point. Im not saying they dont have their own deep mechanics, Im specifically thinking about the melee which most fps shooters just dont have anywhere close to the depth of. Not much comes close, especially in fps terms. SM2 has more in common with DT than BF does imo.
My intent was not to downplay the complexities of other fps games so I apologise if I gave anyone that impression.
As for being safe from BF. Im not sure I agree with that because I dont think the Tide games are actually many peoples cup of tea, meaning its not something that most people can consistently play. Its too intense regarding the melee combat and constant backstabbing. Its very repetitive and when combined with a lack of PvP and unfair disablers etc, I think it puts people off and they get tired. So I do think people will flock to BF or whatever new flavour comes along.
However, there will always be a solid core of masochists who need that Tide fix, and Im one of them
Something I want to point out in this conversation (and see the chart below from Steam Charts):
While yes, the Arbiter class release yielded the highest PEAK player count since launch (42k), the AVERAGE daily counts are both lower AND dropping off more quickly compared to the class overhaul in ā23, which had 5,000+ higher average counts. A few months later it had gone from 16.5k ā> 11.8k, whereas with Arbiter weāre going from 11.5k ā> 6k. Nearly 50% drop.
This is probably stating the obvious here. I also have to believe that the lack of hotfixing prior to FSās summer break, and the continued broken state of the game (hard crash when too many buff stacks are up), plus on-going frustration with the state of balance and a stale meta is likely at fault.
Right, but the peak was also higher. Iām saying this in the context of FS not doing things that help retention. If they released Arbiter and had some other content (new maps or weapons for other classes, balance updates, etc.) to go along with it, weād probably see better retention %ās AND higher average counts than two years ago, capitalizing on the Abitrer release bringing people in.
Instead, we had a huge spike (great!) but itās dropping off quickly (not so great).
EDIT: We had better average counts from October ā24 through January ā25 than we have had in the past 30-days.
Right after Unlocked & Loaded. Pretty big update for existing players. Makes sense to me.
To your other point: yea, Iām sure the bugs/issues (especially the state of quickplay) have hurt retention for this update. But personally, I donāt think a couple or 5 or 10 maps are really going to keep people around, even with full control over map selection. Maps just donāt change the game enough.
boy iād take any substance or sacrifice entire nations to have that kind of reflexes (again )
ok i wasnāt on āthatā level in my heyday but not far off either.
major difference between pvp and darktide is not being nervous at 170bpm pulse.
when i did bf5, a steady increase in kd was mandatory, i would not stop the session until kd positive compared to yesterday.
after 5 (talking skillful infantry here, not rats in the sky kd farming) it gets pretty stressful playing solo to say the least and it doesnāt take einstein to realize you canāt keep that up for long.
so in a way, getting older aside, darktide is a far healthier game havenāt had a sip of alcohol ever since, never used it for the taste but soothe the nerves when performing.
Thats a large part of why I dont think DT is for many people. Throughout that video, while he was playing with lots of apm style play, its not the same as the horde in your face. He will never get stuck in a swarm and die because they rip him apart in seconds and he ran out of dodges. Its all about precise aim and extreme reflexes and outsmarting humans via map knowledge.
Obviously if you are a god in other 1st person shooters your aim and awareness will translate well but one has to learn a whole set of new skills to play Tide games.
Iāve been playing Darktide since its release and play Auric for just having fun, as you can play every class and loadout and play Havoc if I want some real pain.
My point has really more to do with time management. To become actually good at Darktide means to know the maps, get timing right and have consistent aim and that generally requires investment.
If you have like 2 to 4 hours in the evening where you can play solo or with friends, thatās enough time for 1 game to invest time into. Weekends for me are kind of reserved for big single player releases, be they indie or AAA. I will stop playing Darktide simply because I lack the time, and I know several other Darktide players who feel the same way.
As Darktide relies on ingame purchases to stay afloat player retention IS important and I fear that unless they have some big expansion in the oven and improve on replay value they will loose the player base (including myself and friends) that is willing and able to spend money at the ingame shop.
The reason I feel all of this matters is because Iām pretty sure that the DT audience is 90% 21+ years old and this kind of audience simply doenāt have all day.
Thatās actually a luxury, to have that much for a game daily. Normally, people have other hobbies and obligations too. And few people will want to play the same game (and only it) day to day, thatās serious level of devotion at that point.
Thatās the reason why all those assumptions that āhoning your skillsā, āgetting gudā can somehow pass as endgaming in DT are moot. 90% of people playing it will never be good enough to play its highest levels of difficulty, theyāll be about good as it takes to play Damnation, plus-minus. And leaving them hanging to dry like that, with no goals achievable for them, nothing to look forward to, is deliberately handicapping your own project, reducing your potential source of income - what will just result in it stagnating and never properly taking off, moving anywhere. Possibly being terminated if it wonāt be able to make some profitability goals. Git gud crowd really needs to consider that. There are no private servers in DT, when itās gone - itās gone.
To be fair, in DT most players just start using pre-canned builds they are suggested by somebody at some point, they donāt really think much of synegry either. You can find builds with detailed explanations on how it all works together and how to play them on gameslantern, or in various YT videos. Iāve played 300+hrs already, and so far I only made myself may be 2-3 builds I think? And out of those, only one really from scratch, for my psyker which I played from day 1. For other classes I just use builds created by other people, with some tweaks I add when I learn more about how the class is played and what I like about it.
To be fair to GW, they kind of do have a vested interest in making sure that the cosemetics that tie to published units (Death Korp, Salvar Chem Dogs, etc) are actually to spec. Plus they are picky about accuracy with everyone who has a license to their golden goose. Its one of the trade offs with getting one of the most-sought after IPs - they leave the gameplay entirely up to you, but you had bloody well make sure that youāre artists actually look at the published materials first.
And after the fiasco that was the Death Korp cosmetics I donāt blame GW at all for wanting to keep Obesetuna on a very short leash. One of the iconic units of the game, with a whole lot of hype about its coming, and FS utterly botched it. To the point where even non-40k players noted glaring issues. That takes a special mix of neligence, arrogance, and pure incompetence to pull off.
Counterpoint to this is, I donāt want difficulty to come from my character feeling so anemic that I basically canāt do anything. I want characters to be overpowered, but then throw stupid challenges at them, like the armored nurgle rot event that absolutely obliterated groups regardless of build.
Currently, only 2 classes are particularly good. Arbites and Ogryn. Ogryn itself isnāt as good as arbites and could use a little love. But taking a psyker/zealot/veteran (outside of golden toughness vet) just is a lesson in frustration and isnāt very fun.
Thatās the big thing, I should feel like I can relatively easily survive provided I play right. If I need to have perfect play with weapon swapping and sprint sliding and such, Iām just going to stop playing the game after I finish whatever goal I have, because that type of challenge isnāt particularly fun.
Basically itās the helldivers approach. Every weapon, every build, every player should feel extremely powerful. The challenge is the nonsense thrown at the player. Pre-arbits/ogryn rework DT is just not a good game, but it takes a while to shift the difficulty over to enemy difficulty after players feel good.
Nah they had a great damage relationship with the other 3 characters contrasted to their survival abilities (though resist death exists and is impossibly good in the hands of someone who avoids damage). Ogryn lacked on damage but made up for it with a free wound 100 HP more than Zealot and 36% damage resistance through toughness just for selecting him. Along with appealing mid round advantages like dominating elite stagger power, no slow down for hauling or being able to pick up players even if stamina and toughness is broken during the animation. All of this was fairly balanced by having a lower horde and elite clearing ability than say a Zealot who was mashing weakspots and dodges like a maniac.
Now you can literally leave auto attack mod on bully club 3 with no confident strike and massacre through even the highest havocs basically never dodging. Its not a good look. The other classes are indeed broken by this comparison. Youāre stronger than melee og used to be running gunlugger. So I see people mashing up like 3 million damage in an auric round from Rumbler grenades and pickaxe removing the gameplay.
If anyone played Chromehounds, Helldivers 2 took the idea the furthest that I am aware of. Tide games could genuinely use a metanarrative to keep players engaged, and especially focused on missions. And give the community goals to work towards as a community, rather than just do missions until you get bored, go play something else.
Releasing content once every 3-4 months is not enough to keep people engaged. The grind if your nee is also so bad once people realize what theyre getting into they quit playing. At the end of the day people are going to get whatever they want from this game. This games fun for like a month when new content drops then its back blringw again but at the same times there isnt anything left for me to do in the game as someone with thousands of hours. I probably wouldve stopped playing this game a long time ago if bl4 had been out before sept 12 just because you can stop playing this game for months and not necessarily miss anything and especially if you have money and resources. Im definitely still going to play this game in the future but a break is much warranted. This games also rather boring with all the power creep and arbites dog being better than your average teammate makes missions incredibly boring nowadays anyway. They wont ever be able to maintain tens of thousands of players I just dont think this game will ever warrant that. Even if they released a new psyker staff tomorrow and some new enticing game mode or even a new character the hype wouldnt last.
New class doesnt even have that many new toys. New shotguns but only two of them, new shock maul, new op dog. On the other hand arbi got a shield which is new but not completely new because the ogryn shield is kind of similiar. Also although the class is new grenades arent really new and its not like we got a new class with 8 new weapons and the shock maul is new but its similiar to what we already had because its not a completely new weapon family. I dont even play the new class that often and I was excited for it. Its just more of the same at the end of the day. Yeah sure we all wanted a new class but I feel like id be more willing to play the game if we had a new psyker staff or something like if they had given is two new staffs id probably be way more engaged with the game currently. This game does get boring though cuz were just doing the same thing over and over again with no real use for resources and content is drip fed throughout the year and it gets boring inbetween.
As soon as a couple of my friends actually listened to me when I told them that dodging was essential they improved dramatically.
, but at least they mostly dodge them now right?
)
havenāt had a sip of alcohol ever since, never used it for the taste but soothe the nerves when performing.