Suppression is a great game mechanic. Unfortunately the enemies have their own version of it they can inflict back, which doesn’t really contribute much except to some weapons going even more unused.
Like a headhunter autogun, a weapon totally hinged on crit damage to where Mk7 can one shot a scab flamer, or fail to 2 shot the head with T4 maniac damage. This is one of the 4 enemy armor types its weak against, it also has poor mobility when you aim in. It could be strong against gunners, but if they’re shooting back you simply have no choice but to drop sights start sliding and move. Or use suppression immunity deep on the entirely bad left veteran tree.
Is the point of enemy inflicted suppression so that Veteran can have a marginal edge using a bunch of ranged weapons that are already bad? With the single exception of the Zarona revolver, the meta weapons are either immune or essentially immune to the effects.
Maybe Kantrael las and headhunter autoguns would be miles better if they could actually return fire when getting shot at. They seem to be based around ADS with bad hipfire little bodyshot damage and bad special attacks (or no attack at all). The suppression thing compounds their multiple target weakness into totally unviable territory. Sure, they could use some buffs. But this mechanic is so oppressive uniquely only to already terrible weapons that it could be removed altogether without making the game easier. Like the toughness grace break period.
I do think it adds to the game and makes it more interesting. Without suppression, ranged units would be much less threatening and require fewer positioning decisions to handle effectively.
It would also make the vet’s suppression resistance trait much less unique.
This seems like maybe more of a weapons balancing issue?
that was the point of the thread yeah, either be consistent or don’t. I can point to all of the bolter and Zarona that have a maybe for balance argument (Zarona definitely could use a tangible nerf but at least this exists for it) but the rest are 100% bad guns made worse.
Kantrael lasguns, headhunter autoguns and the braced revolver. Basically the other 3 weapons in the game impacted by it that were useless BEFORE suppression took their only advantages away.
What I think suppression adds to the game is the subconscious need for players to move to advantageous cover. Without it, I think we’d have a lot more people standing out in the open getting torn to shreds by enemies. I can’t really think of any other valid arguments, but I don’t see it as an issue.
Honestly hate the suppression mechanic. Both against enemies and against the player.
But yes it is incredibly frustrating to be in cover, getting shot at, and just have to sit there because you can’t line up the shot. If it only applied to you out in the open sure.
Personally I think taking the risk out of being shot (hit stun) does a lot more harm to the game than a blanket check of ‘do you get to ignore this mechanic or not’ on your ranged. There’s another weapon adjacent to the suppression mechanic that is terrible specifically because its immune to it and the Kantrael isn’t (the Las Pistol). I don’t think you guys are giving the discussion the full scope.
Its not that being shot is bad, its that a managerie of bad guns I would advocate for buffs for even if they didn’t get supressed - get gutted by it completely. If you hit all of ‘flak’ and ‘unarmored’ at the cost of hitting the 4 other types for less than full damage, you would think it would be at least good for piling up dregs and scabs that have guns. They can’t even do that right.
At some point I’d like to look at many of the ranged slot choices avaliable to Zealot/Psyker/Veteran as not complete garbage and I’m sure you would too.
Maybe I’m not fully understanding your point, but you posed a direct question that I answered: yea, I think the suppression mechanic adds to the game, and I think the game would be shallower (and less engaging) without it.
But also, yes, I think it would be ideal if suppression was tweaked/scaled better for different weapons.
Because people don’t take effect from it by weapon selection. The ADS weapons they use either ignore it, fire xbox sized projectiles to ignore it or spray just as accurately under it. Its basically not in the game except for these weapons I mention, which go unused because they are bad weapons before you get suppressed.
Headhunter autoguns and lasguns suck, even without suppression, and are the only not boltgun or braced revolver even impacted by it.
Also not hitting what you’re shooting at isn’t really a fun feeling, like in any game.
I just played a few games on vet with revolver (my love), and I feel the crunch of suppression. And it feels appropriate and challenging. If I could effortlessly click heads under all circumstances, I’d be bored to tears. Suppression works for the revolver, and I don’t mind missing shots because it feels like a realistic and interesting (with risk/reward) mechanism for when I find myself in subpar positioning.
I really don’t feel confident speaking on other weapons because I really haven’t paid much attention to suppression. It feels organic and properly punishing, but also easily mitigated. If other weapons, which may not perform as well as the revolver normally, suffer disproportionately under suppression, those weapons need to be balanced.
I think it adds a really enjoyable cinematic element to the game where you’re forced to play somewhat safely and not just effortlessly onetap everything, but I admit that it gets a bit silly at the top end where there can be upwards of 30 shooters looking at you at any one time, since it can take an annoyingly long time to cut back enough of them to make any meaningful progress.
I think the issue of it hitting some weapons harder than others is a blessing issue more than anything else. There are blessings that counteract suppression and they’re available on the weapons that are hit hardest by it, but they’re generally seen as less useful than other, more kill-y blessings, so choosing them forces you to give up killing power. That’s never a choice that feels good.
Overall I wouldn’t want to see it removed, but I can see some benefit in looking at the tools players have for mitigating it.
I think suppression is poor when the gunner is so far away that nothing is hitting you so there is no logical threat, but you cant snipe back because your aim is dancing around. There should be a distance limit on it or something. Also when you are in a psyker bubble and protected from all ranged fire why are you still flinching?