anything with a duration based attack, like crowbar and saw heavies. its the biggest thing holding these cool weapons back, with weapon specials activation to heavy time a close second. pls fatshark
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dodging should only cancel if you dodge far enough away for your melee attack to miss if you were to swing it, and blocking should cancel too
Dodges cancel those specials so you donāt get animation locked and die. It was a problem on the early days so the dodge cancel was added.
I would go a step farther and say that not having awful animations and locks is what makes most of those good. Try using a folding shovel and then the crowbar, even without Rampage! the experience is so much better on the crowbar. Especially vetās folding shovel with the un-cancelable heavy latch on the Mk7 that takes 11 years. Why canāt I dodge out of that.
What Zoro said basically. If anything I wish they addressed the player camera getting occasionally span around if you latch on to an enemy. Depending on what is happening to your target your camera can suddenly look up or down. Quite disorientating.
Exactly.
Why do the force sword or chain axe sawing animations need to exist at all? They may have been tolerable back when Darktide didnāt spawn large blobs of Elites at a time, but in Auric+ now itās not worth the extra commitment to use those Special attacks and risk engulfment by the mosh pit in a few mere seconds during the animation.
Might be more effective to just scrap the animations completely and go with a temporary Stat boost during Special Activation for a reasonable downside.
Ex: Chainaxe special is active = 40% Rending but Stamina consumption increases.
Ex: Force Sword special is active = Attacks count as Warp Damage and have bonus cleave (Illisi), Strength (Obscurus) or Rending (Deimos) but decreased mobility while active due to fatigue from channeling Warp to sword.
(With Uncanny nerf too).
Oh man I even forgot the illisi force sword even exists. Go take that crap into a Havoc 40 and toss special attacks around for a genuinely underwhelming experience.
Illisi is still A Tier horde clear in my book even up to Auric; but it requires either ranged weapon or Blitz to be anti-armor focused, without a premade.
Sounds like in Havoc it nose dives off a cliff with the amount of armored Elites
It should have been block to cancel rather than dodge. Before the change you could still dodge left or right and remain latched on, so I feel like itās actually removed options
i used it a lot when it came out and most players considered it a top tier weapon. i had something like blazing spirit and shred to set hordes ablaze. but it has been power crept out of the game because now thereās so much armor which ilissi doesnāt handle well. deimos on the other hand does that.
Please Fatsharkā¦ STOP BUFFING THINGS
I use crowbar every day I playā¦ Crowbar is REALLY good.
The biggest problem is that the players donāt put stamina curios and soā¦ they miss the entire potential of the crowbar. Or, they need more practice if they do itā¦ also there is a perk +2 stamina for weaponsā¦ I am pretty sure a lot of them donāt put that.
Did several maelstrom yesterday with scums and a crowbar. I was close to the psykers that were using purgatus staff with my build.
Sure, every time I have met several purgatus users, I could not play (and have left the game). But there is NO NEED to buff this weapon.
Sidenote: I try actually a needle pistol + shivs using a mixed build with chemical dependency + rampage + coated weaponryā¦ I have done way more damages in 3 triesā¦ Are we sure toxin is balanced?
For the bone sawā¦ not tested enough
But scums DONāT NEED AT ALL a buff.
However, Rampage should be returned to the previous state and you should look at toxin damages.
And yes, the special needs timeā¦ you should forbid animation cancel at all or at least, make them not making successful the action. So, no, donāt put an animation cancel hereā¦ Yes, this requires practiceā¦ Best is to anticipate. And yes, I have landed on floor because of this several timesā¦ but I donāt ask, at all, that this change. This kind of things makes the weapon really interesting because you need to practice it.
PS: when will you nerf psykers? especially soulblaze and/or purgatus. As I donāt play this class, not sureā¦ but the stats published speak by themselves. Purgatus is the most used weapon for a god reason. And no, I donāt ask to nerf it to the groundā¦ just to put psykers back in the line with others classes.
Deimos also does horde clear just fine especially with Slaughterer and Shred just spamming light attacks.
Sure it doesnāt have the perfect horizantal cleave pattern of Illisi; but mixing in a few push attacks to interrupt swarming hordes, using doorways/choke points and a strong Crit setup with Disrupt Destiny to max out weakspot/crit damage takes a lot of Deimosās downside away.
Maybe thatās not the average playerās experience with it, but I can certainly see why experienced Psyker mains drop Illisi like hot 
in higher difficulties for the do-it-all characteristics of Deimos.
Perhaps Illisi needs a push activated stab attack that can utilize the āpower onā function of Special activation, or Deimos needs a light attack speed decrease or bothā¦
deimos also has the push stab which can throw crushers on their ass and creates breathing room. also can hit an bulwarkās head when he opens the guard, or goes right through the shield with special.
ilissi does only clank, clank in both cases.
it needs a stab woven into the sweeping motions so it can do more than zombie massacre reliably.
I get what youāre saying but weapons really should have their deficiencies focused around push attacks, so the use of these attacks to circumvent intentional deficiencies for balancing is more limited.
Because their attack rates are already so fast and their attack patterns are so well varied, weapons like Deimos or DS really donāt need to utilize the higher stamina cost push attacks at all to cover their weaknesses.
If a player understands the attack patterns they effectively can bypass a downside that could otherwise be better served to balance the weapons.
With Talents, Blessings and Blitzes all factoring into the balance equation, it becomes increasingly hard to account for all factors, something a more streamlined approach to weapon design could alleviate with the core concept of: Push attacks offer temporary and limited repreive to specific weapon deficiency.
Ex: So for Deimos, since itās focus is anti-armor, the next attack following a push would be the best horde clear attack Deimos has in itās moveset IMO. That could be a heavy attack, with the charge up delay requiring a bit more thought to positioning OR a light attack for less impact/CC, depending on what direction devs wanted to take.
Hopefully that makes sense and not too much rambling.
If you think about it, the animation is ripping the thing out towards yourself. Why wouldnāt dodging back achieve the same thing? Makes no sense for it to cancel the damage
They should forbid totally animation cancel. This is a big problem. At least, if you cancel it, it should not result in the success of the action.
This allows too many problems in the game.
I consider myself somewhat a force sword connoisseur. I never liked Illisi, but I have spent majority of my 1000h time on psyker playing around with Obscurus, and to smaller degree with Deimos. I must have tried it all, including the fun thematic builds like with Blazing Spirit. You barely ever use the special attacks on force swords, even after the change which allows you to dodge out from that animation lock in. I find it a bit bizarre that the OP asks for this to be removed.
Yeah, I agree, animation cancelling, whatever to speed up reload, quelling, weapon readiness state (bolter with zealot knives) or to reuse the same attack with weapon swap animation cancelling just asks for macros.
I think specifically in the case of a dodge itās not problematic where it makes sense. You canāt really abuse it because a back dodge has a longer cooldown than starting another attack anyway. But itās kind of weird that the process of
gets cancelled by dodging back. Youāre literally pulling back too. It makes on chainsword etc actions because those are continuously letting the teeth dig in, but this oneās kinda stupid
I donāt really see how you cancel dodgeā¦
what I say is that, if you dodge, it should cancel your action. Not just the animation.
All these animation cancels are abused. Myself, and all of us do it everyday because it is part of the game. But it should really cancel your action, not just the animation.
Especially since it is now abused by far with macros.
those are the ones worth looking at, I donāt think being able to avoid the āby the power of grayskull!ā weapon special on weapons with power buttons (on the few that even let you do this anyway) are on the same level as sprint-canceling into a slide to make 40 purgustus puffs in 5 seconds (which would absolutely destroy a human hand to do without heavy rebinding, so its definitely a cheat when a button can run it perfectly looping on a script). in fact there are a lot of weapons that donāt have animation cancels despite having the same āyou get 3s to use 1 powered attackā which I think is grounds for more weapon changes. Find some reason for the chainsword to exist besides uniquely having animation cancel vs the better chain weapons!
also Iām pretty positive you canāt dodge out of the spike on the vet shovel, you can short cancel it by being dodging like right as it connects but they donāt let you abort it like with the crowbar.
block to cancel makes sense