Pls fix the issue of Bardin with a “ladder” since this game release… It’s so hard to climb up,
BW: she’s perfect.
UC: she needs a buff. Currently the risk is too high compared with her bonus whit overheat. Moreover the damage reduction is useless if it’s enough one hit to bring her near the max overheat.
Puro: she needs a lrework. IMHO it’s very boring use the ult mainly to farm tHP just to continuously vent the overheat (and we can’t vent with the melee weapon). Her ult should remove the heat as passive… After this we can slightly nerf the other ult’s talents.
Just to touch on something: you don’t need to ult/vent, you can have certain playstyles where you stay overcharged and go hybrid melee/range and vent passivly, if you don’t like the vent ult playstyle. Or use heat remove on ult and be hybrid that way.
Edit: or even go high crit melee only pyro, her talents allow her to do so.
BW still too strong
Pyro is perfect place, great hybrid class can be played melee or ranged both works amazingly good
UC thp on kill instead on stagger and it would be perfect
Ye, that you have more styles it’s true… But, just to know your point of view, don’t you think that a safer Pyro (when you use your ult just to clean the overheat) could be a weaker BW? In this way you lose her speciality: the higher damage when you are near the overheat.
While, if you reach almost the max overheat and then you go in melee… Would not she be too similar to Pyro?
I mean: UC’s design is pretty good… She needs only some love to some numbers… But imho Pyro needs a more unique style, not just a buff.
But I repeat, just to know your opinion
Did you mean unchained here? i’m confused :p.
Yes unchained is pretty similar to a melee pyro, but pyro has alot of different builds. also i wouldnt say pyro is similar to bw, they both are ranged careers and have 10% ranged dmg passive, but they have different playstyles, and they have different things they are good at. i would categorize bw as ranged career, pyro hybrid, uc tanky melee (yes i know not tanky cuz onehit down). This is also why i think burn dots shouldnt affect super armor or atleast at a reduced number, because right now you can just use bw and deal with everything pretty much.
Some talent builds you can go on pyro to be effective:
ride fire wind;deathly disspation if you are the only competing for specials or are coordinated with barrage is pretty good;soul siphon or volans doctrine.
spirit casting; on the precipe; volans doctrine; crit refund
or melee if you like that: spirit casting; one with the flame; volans doctrine, idk about trait but probably something that improves ur damage, such as like barrage or something.
You can go plenty of things, but dont really wanna go to in depth, switch staff around, melee etc.
- every staff on famished + firesword is pretty much strongest right now in terms of overall dmg
- bolt volcanic strong against elites and yes lined up hordes.
- you can also make volcanic work on every staff if you play around your vent talent
yes lingering works, and you can keep damaging them while they burn, but if you are gonna do that you might aswell use famished.
Unchained i dont really know, but from what i play sometimes i think the only builds that are good are:
frenzied flame;conduit;natural talent (enfeebling flames would work, but i’m pretty sure its broken in terms of dmg going into overcharge); i like fuel for fire so i dont lose all my dmg stacks when i vent in the middle of combat/temp hp is also nice.
conflag/crow is my go to, could also swap out for either fireball or dagger.
Probably way more players here with way more uc experience then me tbh
Pyro has alot of different builds and playstyles, i didnt even list all of them here and i’m sure a motivated sienna player could make any talent choice work and still do alot of dmg and not hold the team back.
Bw: super strong, i would say still super high dmg for the amount of effort needed, the amount of cc, dmg reductions, Dot dmg, ult dot dmg,. Still the strongest easiest and safest sienna career to play imo.
Uc; i dont really like to play uc, but she lacks in something. Pyro melee is more fun for me, but like i said i think uc needs some changes, nerfing pyro just to make uc look good is not a good idea i think, some would say it is and unchained is fine as she is and balanced, but thats a whole different discussion.
pyro and bw are 2 different careers and have different ults. but i understand what you mean. i dont think she would be a weaker bw, pretty hard to compete with a good bw tho, they can be pretty close in terms of damage.
I also think you can still play around high overcharge, you just need to wait on ur heat passively venting, and then use ur staff again, switch to melee, and if there is a horde you can clear your overcharge and spam. Its not really my playstyle, but i think it would work. This is ofcourse assuming you are playing without a temp hp career in your team, a kruber would make it useable for sure, even if you can coordinate elite kills or something to get temp hp back.
I think both BW and Pyro are in a good spot right now. They’re both powerful, have several good build options (which csn’t be said for most classes…), but aren’t really overpowered (anymore). I wouldn’t want to see them being messed with for the sake of balance tweaks. Especially since there are other carreers and weapons that need the attention a lot more.
Yep, sorry, I meant UC.
Anyway I agree that Pyro has more builds, I meant that I find boring use the ult “just” to farm tHP to vent… Also because I don’t like how vent mechanics works (for example I hate the fact that you can’t vent with the melee weapon).
While the “safe build” (to use the ult “just” to remove the overheat) seems to me too similar to BW.
Apart this, I agree with @TmanDW Imho BW is well balanced… She’s the “versatile Sienna”. Good heat control. Good versatility. Good enemies control.
But she has not a great damage boost/toughness like Pyro and UC.
Kaboom is useful to control, to weaken enemies… But I’m playing weaves and I do not feel that her dot has much time to deal a great damage. It’s more like a support.
Yes, but you dont have to use that talent, thats my examples i gave you. And not using temp hp on ult doesnt make her more like bw. you can compare every sienna career because they use the same staff, they are different careers and have different passives and playstyles, talents aswell. you are comparing her to bw because she vents overcharge just like bw does on her 3/6sec talents.
She is super strong still, i dont think she is the versatile sienna, right now she can do alot of dmg with melee but thats purely because of flamesword or dagger even because of dots. she isnt really versatile, still all based around range and dots. pyro is versatily, lots of different playstyles, can go melee or ranged.
I dont know what to tell you, if you are not doing much dmg as bw, maybe you are playing her wrong.
With versatile I don’t mean that she can adopt more styles, but that she has survivability.
Anyway, without make the speech too complicated, I was only saying that to use the ult to farm tHP and to vent (ad 90% of players play her… And maybe the most efficiente way) is too boring (even because the vent mechanics is pretty clunky).
You can go in overheat and spam melee… But this seems to me too similar to UC.
You can clean the heat with the ult… But in this way you lose her bonus.
I mean… There are good ideas that need some tuning.
Dunno man… Maybe I play her badly, maybe you overvalue her strenght. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying “omg, Fatshark nerfed her too much, now she’s weak”. She is still really strong… But in a balanced way = She does not need nerf.
Obvly imho. I mean. Think about a big group full of elites. You can set on fire and weaken them. Really really useful. But you can’t anymore spam F > block > wait. Now you must have another player the kill them, that finish your (Sienna) job!
Yes i agree with survivabilty, she is safest to play imo. versatility is something else.
Its like playing bw, venting, farming temp hp, venting. Thats literally the sienna class if you wanna use your staff alot. if you find that boring, sienna isnt for you i’m afraid.
I dont think they are cluncky. venting is smooth imo.
I gave some examples of where it could be usefull in previous post. You can still play around high overcharge, don’t vent manually, and when you need alot of burst, you ult. for example.
The best way to play pyro is, spamming staff untill you get under 80% hp, ult, spam staff again, no hp left? melee elites. ur still range heavy, its not that you go in overcharge and then just go melee like unchained.
Uc best way is to keep 4-5 stacks, melee
oh ur dropping under 5, switch, cast, 5 stacks again, melee.
you need alot of burst dmg, ult or vent and spam staff.
I dont think i’m overvalueing her strenght, and im pretty confident to say that.
The elite group scenario is hard to answer on because so many things matter. but its not hard to deal with a group of elites as bw, yes whc deals with them better, but depending on your loadout/weps/talents its no problem.
Playing as BW and UC (indeed I want to repeat that UC’s style is very good, she needs just some buff) I can do my job without vent (or anyway without vent too much).
Honestly I don’t want make the speech to complicated… But if you want exploit the maximal Pyro potential, you have to vent to much. This forces you to change your weapons very often and, in a game where weapons swap mechanics is pretty clunky and where you can already take damage while pushing/dodging, it’s not a good thing. The reward, compared with the risk, is not enough.
About BW we have just a different opinion. She’s strong, about this I agree with you, but she doesn’t need nerf (imho). I feel that, with a nerf, she would become the umpteenth flat/lackluster career (like another RV, just to do an example).
Just wanna add my simple thoughts about UCs ultimate abilities.
So first of all, what I think are the problems atm:
Flame Wave: is there any use at all? doesn’t feel special or impactfull in any way for me
Fuel for the Fire: personally my skill of choice atm, the problem is:
for a melee orientated class the loss of overcharge forced you into ranged after using this.
Bomb Balm: is the safe, supportive skill and in the best spot imho
so what would I change? First of all I think the ultimate skills should support different playstyles.
As i mentioned Bomb Balm is in an ok spot (it offers light CC, THP and Venting).
Fuel for the Fire should be UCs most offensive skill. Imho it shall not vent overcharge, but therefore give better offensive stats and add some melee weapon effects… maybe no explosion at all but therefor increased charge attack dmg/speed/cc and a conical flame wave with increaed pushed range on push attacks (would synergize well with Searing Grasp aswell)
Flame Wave: could be a “directional explosion” with a low percentage vent (maybe like a third) and high CC, smth. like a “Flame Wave” you can cast infront of you that knock down enemies and knock back big enemies (CW bosses etc) pretty much like if you cast FK’s ulimate in place but with a burning dot and therefore higher CD.
so you have a “low risk/support”-Style, a “high risk/dmg”-style and a “medium risk/CC”-style build option. CD’s needs to be tuned accordingly, but should be lowered in general imho.
Edit: I think some thoughts about weapon restrictions for Siennas different classes could do a part in balancing/making them more unique to eachother aswell (with an eye on Pyros melee power)
I dont think she needs a nerf. all i wanna see as a sienna player is some talent reworks on her, but she is indeed pretty good right now.
About the rest of your post; i dont think we are playing the same class. Or maybe i just got super used to her that i dont see the issues you are having with her.
We’ll just have to disagree here from what i understand you dont like venting, so yea for pyro you need to vent.
Does this ult proposal, still allow you to not blow up? or is the risk of not having a ‘rescue ult’ incorporated in the idea?
That means no “rescue ult”, yes
Yes, but i thought you meant, it doesnt clear it all, but it still removed a little bit so you dont explode.
Thanks for clarifying.
Wouldn’t it be more wise to rework Flame Wave then because I know noone who said that he would pick it at all. Because honestly, Fuel to the Fire is already on par with Bomb Balm or superior in my opinion. And I really don’t want it to be changed because:
- It gaps the time to build new overcharge so that you don’t lose your whole 60 % of melee power. You still have 25 %
- It increases the damage output of your active skill
- It increases the stagger output of your active skill
- It increases your ranged power for 10 s
Fuel to the Fire has a lot of utility already and is usually the better choice. If anyone absolutely has
to tinker with it then give it either a sixth stack or 2-5 s more duration. But that skill really doesn’t need a buff or rework at all.
I don’t disagree that the ult talents should cater different builds. It should be like that. But let Bomb Balm be the support. Fuel to the Fire the Range/Utilily/Melee Hybrid it currently is and completely rework Flame Wave into something more melee centric. I described some kind of berserk style ult far far above in the thread. But I doubt the community will go with that one
But it doesn’t and it isn’t currently.
The weapon is complete trash tier, even with perfect QQ attacks I remember it took like 8-10 headshots to kill Chaos Warrior on Unchained with some medium overcharge bonus = useless, especially without gray-zone perfect QQ action. And the crowd control is nightmare, it’s slow and drains all the stamina.
Currently this weapon has no use basically.
You mean, the secret boss of drachenfel’s third map ? That we’ll slain with our gorgious new character, the gold magister ?