this is a simple idea to make desperado and more specifically, all auto guns as good as the needle pistol is while making all guns able to lean into the hive scum special of chem toxin that allows hive scum to ignore building for damage and instead allowing the building for movement and utility by adding a 3rd talent buff to the desperado ability that simply makes it so firstly, each crit hit applies chem toxin and when an enemy affected by chem toxin dies, they hit all enemies around them with a minimum of 1 stack of chem toxin in a small radius with a max of up to maybe 3 stacks they can distribute to all enemies around not just GIVING you the powerful as hell chem toxin which with the speed of most guns would be too crazy but allowing you to get it still in a way that lets you melt hordes easily and get the crazy ogryn and monstrosity damage chem toxin can do.
i disagree, if you want to play more into chem it should stay on the other side of the talent tree. The entire left side of the tree should be raw firepower and crit for ranged
I believe the archetypes of left side gunslinger, middle brawler, and rightside chemical war criminal is perfectly fine.
i personally have a 60% damage crowbar and needle pistol and the chem toxin does all the damage i could possible want even wiping crusher hordes and monstrosities easily cause my crow bar has +2 stamina and 20% block efficiency with obviously 80% defences that let me tank entire hordes after popping just a few shots of the needle pistol at their feet causing them to all pop while being unable to kill me.
basically, its a situation where their most unique thing is chem toxin and that chem toxin is a great way to help make up for the lacking toughness regen and damage mit because than you dont need to invest SO HARD in PURE damage and more than that, you dont need to try too hard to maintain damage buffs and instead just use your chem toxin wisely to keep the damage up.
I assume the damage stat doesnt affect the toxin damage much like the fire dot?
I do not think applying any kind of DoT on crit for ranged weapons is a wise idea, the dual machine pistols would instantly max stacks and melt bosses
I’m also sort of expecting needle pistol/chem toxin in general to catch some sort of nerf, it seems very strong vs big enemies and it’s crazy that the new class gets to have its own special DoT effect that stacks with bleed/fire
Imagine autogun rate of fire and ammo reserves applying chem stacks. May as well give Purgatus to Scum and increase the range. 
I assume the damage stat doesnt affect the toxin damage much like the fire dot?
yea it doesnt which is why it works perfectly if you ask me for hive scum who needs to focus on non damage talents, perks, and blessings and instead has to go for mobility and utility stuff while also making everything as strong as the needle pistol which if you ask me is just better than most everything especially with how good it synergizes with the crowbar with defensive buffs as well as stimm supply with toughness regen and increased move speed on your stimm since you dont need cooldown or damage.
I do not think applying any kind of DoT on crit for ranged weapons is a wise idea, the dual machine pistols would instantly max stacks and melt bosses
I’m also sort of expecting needle pistol/chem toxin in general to catch some sort of nerf, it seems very strong vs big enemies and it’s crazy that the new class gets to have its own special DoT effect that stacks with bleed/fire
thats easy, make it so if you choose to get chem toxin, you get hit with -50% gun damage as you “shoot glass bullets or needles or something not meant for damage but instead for applying the chem toxin” paired with it also only procing 1 stack in crit hits.
Imagine autogun rate of fire and ammo reserves applying chem stacks. May as well give Purgatus to Scum and increase the range.
again not really since it would only proc on crits like the coated weapons does for melee weapons and it easily could be made to nerf it with both good lore reasons and i believe that it would fix the problem because now you have to build HIGH crit chance to start building any which still will give high fire rate weapons the edge but it could also be made to have a scaling buff/nerf as well that means past a certain amount of firerate, you actually LOOSE crit chance while under it, you get more to help balance all the autoguns and make it so it so high fire rate weapons are actually not as strong unless you got good members playing non ammo hungry classes or with vets scavenger talent to make up for how much you need to shoot a horde to get your chem toxins going.
This is not a good idea for extreme balance reasons.
Do we really need a buff for desperado???
Do we play same game?
A random arbitrary 50% damage cut will mean nothing when the majority of the DPS will be coming from instantly maxing out chem toxin stacks on any given target
hive scum has been out for two (2) days, it does not need massive sweeping reworks of the class
im gonna leave this post with on final point on why i came up with the idea and more importantly also one small change to the idea that i realized while playing with the knives could be pretty interesting.
firstly, people are wondering why or how this would be balanced or why to even do it in the first place and quite frankly, the reason why i think it should be done is the hive scum has the biggest intigration in almost all of their kit of built in dot damage with the only exception being the autoguns they have access to that they dont get dot damage from making them fundementally just far worse than a good needle gun or bolt pistol set up because those weapons dont need damage building in order to make them good letting you build stamina and stamina effeicency perks and blessings that serve a utility roll instead FAR easier in order to make up for their terrible survivability. its cause of this that i figured the ability focused on boosting gun damage should have a dot intigration in a way that makes it possible to work this into how the autoguns play on the class to fix the far worse balance in my opinion compared to building for chem toxin and bleeding.
secondly the reason for the massive nerf to damage paired with a part some people complaining about that idea left out is that i would also suggest guns below a certain fire rate get BUFFED on their crit chance helping the slower firings guns that also dont have the same crit chance as the better high fire rate guns still get some benefits to make up for it while lowering the crit chance past that threshold to ensure a roughly balanced level of crit chance because lastly, i suggested that it only be built on crit hits. bascically it would encourge hardcore crit building instead of damage to get a lot of dot stacks going out and this also leads pretty well into my next point.
i think the way to make it not as overpowered as people are worried about but also able to still be strong in relation to chem toxin is to make this third talent node attached to desperado on top of the damage nerf and the crit chance nerf/buff depending on the guns firerate, it instead make your bullets do 1 stack of bleed on crit hits since while bleed is strong, its not as strong as chem toxin and this way, you can still run say for example, blackout grenades with the chem toxin node or run coated weapons and do some slashing into tankier targets before popping desperado and also stacking a lot of bleed into them too.
all in all, its a situation where if you ask me, this isnt that big a change and it would still be optional for the lunatics who wanna try to ignore dot damage on hive scum meaning techincally, there would be no ACTUAL change to desperado other than the OPTION to run this third talent node but for those who wanna lean into the strength of the hive scum being dot damage, it would make it a viable option.
what does “biggest intigration in almost all their kit of build in dot damage” mean?
the melee tree also has no DoT talents, it’s all in the far right tree
also if you want to work DoT into your gunslinger build, you can get an upgrade where any grenade applies 3 stacks of tox, which means your spammable blinders that you recharge constantly can now poison swarms
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