Comprehensive Gun Feedback (For Most Guns)

Shortly after I got back into Darktide, following the update that added the most recent new weapons, I’ve been logging simple statistics: Usage of each weapon, particularly on Heresy difficulty. The below feedback is based on each gun’s performance on Heresy.

The most favored weapons are, in no particular order:

  • Plasma Gun
  • MG XII Infantry Lasgun
  • Both Power Swords have balanced usage
  • Chainsword, favored more by Veterans than the others
  • Antax Mk V Combat Axe
  • Boltguns have balanced usage between Veteran & Zealot
  • Agripinaa Mk VIII Braced Autogun
  • Kantrael Mk IX Shotgun (flame shells) have balanced usage between Veteran & Zealot
  • Crucis Thunder Hammer
  • Bull Butcher Mk III Cleaver
  • Mk II Ripper Gun
  • Purgatus Staff
  • Voidstrike Staff
  • Deimos & Illisi Force Swords have balanced usage
  • Turtolsky Mk IX Heavy Sword
  • Gorgonum Mk IV Stubber

These weapons seem to be preferred because of their performance when compared to other weapons, and especially their variants. For example, I’ve logged 5 Obscuris Force Sword, compared to the Deimos @ 17, and the Illisi @ 15. For example, the MG XII Lasgun’s damage per shot and damage per second far exceed the capability of the other 2 Infantry Lasguns, and neither of the other 2 can properly compete. Considering ammo efficiency and actual # of shots needed to purge mob heretics VS actual # of shots needed to purge Specialist, Elites, and Monstrosities, the faster firing weapons are typically–TYPICALLY–better for taking out mobs, while the slower-firing and heavier hitting weapons are more efficient for taking down the tougher enemies. This does not seem to be the case most of the time.

The Infantry Lasguns

There seems to be no reason to choose anything other than the MG XII Lasgun, the slower, heavier-hitting Lasgun. The other two Infantry Lasguns are terrible weapons for taking down mobs AND tougher enemies. If a Veteran or Zealot wanted a gun for mob-clearing, they gravitate towards the Agripinaa Mk VIII Braced Autogun, which is also a slower, heavier-hitting gun. In fact, I haven’t seen anyone use the other two Braced Autoguns at all; it’s only the Mk VIII. I think the MG XII is fine how it is, even though I don’t use it myself, but the other two variants should be made more useful. The MG 4 could use a damage buff. The MG Ia should fire faster.

The Braced Autoguns

Literally haven’t seen anyone use anything but the Mk VIII. These weapons don’t have ADS, but the stability of the other two are absolutely awful. The Graia Mk IV is the faster, low-damage Braced Autogun, but its stability is garbage, and it takes forever to kill anything. What is it good for? Suppression? The Agripinaa can do that better; if it does not kill them first, it will suppress them. The Columnus Mk II is the balanced variant, having medium fire rate and medium damage, falling between the Graia Mk IV and the Agripinaa Mk VIII. But the Columnus Mk II also sucks, because it doesn’t really excel at what the Agripinaa wildly excels at (i.e. dmg, ammo efficiency, stability). The Graia Mk IV should have a much larger magazine, making it more viable for mob-clearing, if that’s what a player might choose to do. The Colmnus Mk II could have a larger magazine, and could use a buff to its fire rate and damage, and a slight buff to its stability. The Mk VIII is fine where it is.

The Headhunter Autoguns

The Vraks Mk III is the winner. Excellent stagger, great damage, can be used for literally any enemy; it is fine where it is, so please do not change it. However, the Vraks VII is garbage. It is semi-automatic, so it should do more damage per shot than its variants. When considering a gun that is great for taking down Elites & Specialists, the Vraks Mk III is the fan-favorite, because of its 3-round burst. The Agripinaa Mk IX is the 2-round burst variant, but I honestly can’t bring myself to use it in any capacity. I think the Mk IX should get a buff to its damage and stability to make it viable as the “middle child” of the other two.

The Infantry Autoguns

Literally all of these are underused. Based on my experience with them, I would assume it’s because of their awful recoil. They need more stability, because at this point, I would just prefer the Mk VIIa Recon Lasgun, which obsoletes all of the Infantry Autoguns.

The Helbore Lasguns

Unfortunately, I’ve only seen the Mk I used twice, and the Mk II used once, so I skimmed Reddit for the community’s direct feedback. Despite not seeing the Mk III, the slower, heavier-hitting Helbore, it seems like some people prefer that for its power. It’s great for taking down Elites and Specialists. The Mk I, the “middle child”, is pretty decent at taking down Specialist and shooter-mobs. But the Mk II, fast-firing, lower-damage Helbore, is strangely both ridiculed and favored for its fire-rate and damage. Since these are all basically sniper rifle-equivalents, it’s difficult to justify using “this one” over “that one”. I prefer the Mk III, because it does the most damage, but I can’t aim for $#!7, so I never use them. But I’ve definitely seen the damage they can do. I think they should be adjusted to be specialized as follows:

Lucius Mk I = Adjust damage and max charge power to be able to one- or two-shot most Specialists and Elites.

Lucius Mk II = Adjust damage and max charge power to take down Ogryns and Mutants in 2-3 shots.

Lucius Mk III = Adjust damage and greatly increase max charge power to shred through Monstrosities.

Vaguely theoretically, this means that the Mk III would be able to one-shot Specialists and Elites, and maybe one- or two-shot Ogryns and Mutants; this is fine. Make it so that not only is its maximum charge greatly increased, and therefore its damage, but for a Veteran to achieve that, they have to charge it up for a while–long enough that they have to decide if they really want to take that shot, or if they should prioritize the horde that’s rushing at them. Finally, the Helbores could also do well with a greater natural crit chance and crit dmg multiplier.

The Recon Lasguns

The Recon Lasguns are known for their lowest recoil of the fully automatic weapons in the game. Their stability is God-Emperor mode, so please leave that as it is. The Mk VId is preferred over the others. This is the fast-firing, low-damage Recon Lasgun that’s better for taking out mobs. The Mk VIIa is the slowest-firing, heavy-hitter and better for taking down the lower-health Specialists and Elites. The Mk II is the “middle child”, and it’s an awful balance. It seems to have less DPS than the other two. The Mk II could use a buff in dmg and its magazine size. Since these are all fully-automatic weapons, they might be selected for their ability to take down mobs, especially shooters; and at the same time, the Mk VIIa is the best of these two at taking down lower-health Specialists and Elites.

The Ripper Guns

The Rippers are known for their mob-clearing, staggering, and suppression. The Mk II (slower, more powerful) is the most preferred, most likely due to its high damage per shot, and its stability, while the Mk V (fast-firing and also high damage) its great for shredding through Elites, but with worse stability. The Mk VI Ripper seems like it’s supposed to be more suited for longer ranged combat, but it needs a damage buff. Its damage per second is the absolute worst, so for it to even contend, it should do more damage. It could also use more stability, akin to the Mk II. I don’t see why the Mk VI, which only fires in two- or three-round bursts, can’t have the greatest stability of the Rippers.

The Combat Shotguns

These have great versatility and excel at stagger and suppression. When ADS’ing, their shot grouping narrows, making them decent at applying CC at long-range, such as to those dreaded Snipers. The Lawbringer Mk VI is the lowest performing and lowest preferred, and I would guess that it’s because the horizontal shell is absolute garbage. The horizontal shell could benefit greatly by allowing it to pierce through 3-4 layers of mobs. The Kantrael Mk IX’s flame shells excel at weakening hallways or just outright killing mobs before they even get to your teammates. Additionally, with No Respite, the Burning DoT eats away at Ogryns. The Lawbringer’s horizontal shell being able to pierce 3-4 layers of mobs would make it viable again, in my opinion, of course. Also, I used to imagine they were flechette rounds, so this is purely me as an individual recommending this: I think the horizontal shell should naturally apply anywhere between 1-6 Bleed stacks on hit. Again, that’s just me.

The One-of-a-Kind Guns

The Flamer is excellent at mob-clearing, but its Blessings really suck. The only one that’s useful across the board is the “faster reload when empty” Blessing. Please add more Blessings and redo the existing ones. For example, “primary fire ignores X% stagger resistance” or whatever it says? Why just the primary fire? Additionally, the “X% chance for Elite enemy to explode”, why does the explosion completely suck? It should do much greater damage and stagger.

The Kickback’s stagger is amazing, but it could use a buff. It’s a blunderbuss, so having to reload after each shot is what balances its damage. Not only that, but if an Ogryn wielding the Kickback is in the middle of a horde, he can’t exactly just reload it any faster and make his life easier in that moment. I think the Kickback could use a slight damage buff, and be able to pierce through more layers of mobs than it already does. It’s great at taking down lower-health Specialists & Elites, but it’s terrible at Ogryns, Mutants, and Monstrosities. By then, most Ogryn-players would have swapped to their melee weapon to beat them down.

The Rumbler’s CC is great, but the falloff damage is God-Emperor-awful. Please consider increasing the range of falloff damage. We’re basically shooting artillery shells, not grenades. I personally don’t like the delayed detonation, and I don’t understand why developers like to use that as… maybe some kind of balancing feature? The delayed detonation does nothing more than allowing more mobs to come at me than I’d like. I would also not favor a gameplay style where shooting an artillery shell with delayed detonation at my feet to clear a horde is how I live my Ogryn life. Please remove the delayed detonation entirely. The weapon would not become overpowered anyway, because it’s also a blunderbuss that needs to be reloaded after every shot.

I’ve barely seen the Revolver. Please buff its damage immensely, and allow it to pierce through armor. I’m not familiar enough with Warhammer 40K lore to know the caliber of the revolver, but it I think it could be stronger. A damage buff will not break this weapon, because we have to reload each bullet sequentially. Another recommendation: Add a Blessing that enables the player to reload via a speed-loader (i.e. reload all bullets at once). That just sounds like a cool Blessing that I think the community might enjoy.

Overall, the gunplay is fun, but I’m getting bored of using the same weapons. There are plenty of other weapons I’d love to play around with, but they’re awful. Of the weapons that are unpopular, my general feedback is for the development team to re-balance those guns to make them viable for the situations/enemies that they probably should be good for. I’ve played games that something like, 2 Veterans with Braced Autoguns, 1 Zealot with a Flamer, and then me as an Ogryn with a Ripper. Essentially, mobs could never touch us, but shooters, Snipers, Gunners, and Shotgunners were our worst nightmare. Or were they? Kind of. I remember we were simply able to apply suppression/stagger, and eventually our non-ADS guns were able to kill them, or we were able to close the gap and bash them with our melee weapons.

I request the development team, and/or other appropriate departments, to fixate on actual gameplay. New cosmetics are nice, but nobody looks nice if the heretics succeeded in killing our teams, because we didn’t have gun-diversity. I’ve been on the opposite side of my above example where I had two teammates using the MG XII Infantry Lasgun, I had a flame shotgun, and a Psyker that was using a Mk VIIa Recon Lasgun. We could take down Specialists and Elites, but mobs took us down, because we were stuck with whatever melee weapons we had. In those situations, sure, get good with melee combat, but all it takes is for a Mutant, Trapper, or Hound to incapacitate us, and then we become free food for the heretics. I was the only person with the only gun that could take down mobs effectively, but that’s a lot of pressure on me. I’d really like to see less of the MG XII Infantry Lasgun–not saying it’s an awful weapon, because it’s not, but the other weapons need to see the light of day.

I will continue to log weapon usage as I continue to enjoy the game. I have also not provided feedback for every single gun, because I’m trying to go to sleep right now, but I also really wanted to provide this feedback. I’ve been collecting data, doing research, analyzing each weapon’s general and/or niche capabilities, and as a new fan of the Warhammer 40K franchise and a fan of Darktide, I’d like to see the game live on for the God-Emperor. The community will still gravitate towards a meta, even if we have to relocate it. But at the very least, every gun and melee weapon should be enjoyable in some way, and I believe that by giving each of them the opportunity to be good at certain generic things, and at very specific things, then each weapon could–at the most absolutely and very least–be considered when we choose our loadouts, and used more often than they have been currently.

I might consider an absolutely complete review of every gun at some point in time, and I will likely consider doing this same type of thing for melee weapons. The more feedback that Fatshark has, the better.


It would be great if there was an optic on it, you can 1SHS Dreg & Scab gunners with one investment VS.
Consistently plinking heads in action is way to difficult for my boomer eyes with the grey-on-grey-on-grey color scheme though.
Does insane damage on BoN if you can get behind, guessing it has a very high weakspot modifier. Is it the same for the other MKs?


Incredible post! I’ll be happy to share some of my observations from T5 on these as well, and address weapons I have confident understanding of. Some of the things I say may be very contrarian to what a lot of others will say and I’ll even recommend nerfs in lieu of suggesting they stay the way they are.

MG XII Infantry Lasgun
The XII is undeniably one of the best rifles in the game. Its high damage and decent firerate makes it a quintessential sharpshooter weapon that pops heads at an alarmingly overpowered rate. There is very literally no better ranged weapon than the XII right now for non-ogryn players. This frankly needs to be addressed along with its very mediocre cousins being lousy picks.

I think it should have a reduced firerate if it’s going to keep its high base damage. A veteran hotshot can trivialize almost any situation in the game lining up and sweeping enemy heads.

A well-rolled grey can even perform really well in T5, and that’s shocking!

Agripinaa Mk VIII Braced Autogun
I genuinely think this is a very overrated weapon. It struggles with damage consistency, and two of its best blessings do the same thing that require kills to perform, and only for three seconds. I dislike the way it handles and how small its magazine and ammo pool is makes it very unsatisfying to use overall.

I do appreciate its astoundingly reliable stagger and it feels good to run-and-gun with. I think the lack of blessing diversity makes it a very bland and boring weapon to build with, however, and would like to see it get some blessings other weapons have. I think that alone would improve the weapon significantly.

Agripinaa Mk I Infantry Autogun
One of my favorite baseline guns in the game right now. It’s actually a very solid representation of what a jack-of-all gun should be able to do. It’s pretty good at doing everything, but it’s not as great as other guns that excel in their specialties.

It has punchy and reliable damage that shreds maniacs and unyielding type enemies. It has a wide and diverse set of blessings that let you tailor the gun to a lot of different playstyles, which is amazing!

Its stability lacks, but it has stable hipfire accuracy like braced autoguns and can chew through hordes reliably. ADS lets you burst consistently before it kicks too much, and it has a pinpoint single-shot that lets you counter snipers.

It is extremely underrated and more people should absolutely look into building themselves a good infantry autogun to use. The Graia variant is honestly just an entirely weaker version of it, however, and the Columnus is absolutely a joke.

Vraks Mk III Headhunter Autogun
One of the few ranged options available that has a damage modifier higher than 100% for flak-armored enemies. I enjoy using this weapon, but it is perhaps not the most satisfying to use. After its buffs, it is a very reliable sharpshooter weapon, but its low damage modifier against maniacs makes it a very weak choice for dealing with specialists. Despite that, it has excellent room-clearing potential due to its burst and high damage against flak.

It is just far superior than its cousins and does the most DPS by a pretty significant margin. If I were to suggest buffs to the Agripinaa Mk IX variant, it would be to increase the damage significantly and make it be able to stagger a lot more as its slow-firing variant.

Lucius Mk I & Mk III Helbore Lasguns
The Helbore is love-hate for me. I started using them extensively late into my tenure as a heretic slayer, but I was pleasantly surprised by the damage potential and reliability of this weapon. These are perhaps truest to being a “sniper” weapon that we have access to, even with a plethora of problems that it has.

To quickly address its optional feature no one talks about: the bayonet stab needs a buff much like the ogryn’s ripper gun got: it needs to do increased damage to armor types as a can opener of sorts, and it also needs to deal reliable stagger that allows you to stop most human-sized enemies from hitting you in a single stab.

Mk I is better at sweeping. It’s fast and reliable despite its lower damage, but it’s a lot of work to clear rooms. I don’t take this weapon to do that, as I prefer prioritizing elites and specialists with its bursty damage instead.

Mk III is absolutely overkill. I don’t think it needs a nerf, but it performs far beyond what the game needs it to. I was very close to killing a T5 crusher in one shot to the head with a crit, and after the +25% buff to damage that The Bigger They Are got, I think I can actually guarantee that now.

I think the Lucius Helbore is a very fun gun to use. It is not a preferred pick for me to use, however, and like everyone else says, its ironsights need to be redesigned. They actually interfere with my aim, so it’s not just an issue of skill.

Foe-Rend Mk II Ripper Gun
Unironically one of my favorite guns to use as ogryn. While I find the stubbers extremely satisfying, the ripper gun has a particular reliability that is unmatched. It’s really sad to see so many ogryn players bash the ripper guns as awful and spread misinformation to new or curious players about their effectiveness.

This thing is a horde-killing monstrosity. It can devastate an entire horde before it runs out of ammo during braced fire. With Killing Frenzy it can near-instantly kill many types of elites in that horde due to the gun’s high damage. With Can Opener IV it can melt crushers like butter with 8 stacks of Brittleness.

Did you know that Brittleness also applies to ranged weapon attacks?

One thing I notice a lot of ogryn players do when they bring a ripper gun is that they don’t use it at all, or they hardly ever use the braced firing mode. While its unbraced burst is really good at reliably killing a trapper or other specialist, it should really only be done for the guaranteed stagger.

Twin-linked Stubbers
The most popular ogryn gun for sure, and for good reason. It’s an extremely satisfying class of weapon that tears through virtually every enemy as a short- and medium-ranged option. Definitely one of my favorite weapons in the game.

The Gorganum is just overpowered. I’ll say it right off the bat that I think it needs to be nerfed. Its killing power is unparalleled to its two variants with a nearly 70 damage difference from the Krourk. Not only that, but it also has astoundingly reliable range that lets you deal with snipers almost too well. At the moment it’s outshining almost every other ogryn weapon the same way the XII lasgun does for other operators.

The Achlys is actually my personal favorite, but right now there’s no reason to use it over the Gorganum. It has an incredibly fast wield time that lets you go from equip to braced in less than, what, 1-2 seconds? Just that alone makes it really fun to play with on top of its high firerate and reliable accuracy/recoil.

The Krourk I think used to be fine and I think people overexaggerated how unstable of a weapon it was, but now with its variants, it’s actually pretty mediocre. It ironically has worse accuracy and recoil than the Achlys, and it doesn’t make up for being a “punchier” variant when the Gorganum is leagues ahead.

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It does actually do crazy DPS to a BoN, but it’s far out-DPS’d by the MG XII Lasgun vs a BoN. There should definitely be something other than iron sights, but the recoil shouldn’t kick back so aggressively. The Vraks VII wins in fire rate, but you can’t spam the trigger, because its stability is awful by then. I don’t know if has a different WS modifier. I’d have to take a lot more time and write down more stuff. And while there certainly are things that I’ve spent too much of my own time writing down when I could have just simply been slaying heretics that dare challenge the God-Emperor, I try and balance my analytics with heretic-purging. Next time I consider a huge review, I’ll definitely look more deeply into more stuff such as WS modifiers. At the same time, I just kind of feel like someone else, perhaps with datamining / modding tools could probably find that information faster and more efficiently than me. But it’s definitely something I’ll think about, next review.

When comparing all of the Headhunter Autoguns to each other, the Mk VII (semi-auto) actually wins in the DPS department, but that’s testing in the Psykhanium, i.e. a firing range, basically. I do actually have the Creature Spawner mod, so I can more accurately simulate whatever scenarios I want. That’s how I know that the MG XII’s DPS far exceeds the Vraks Mk VII. I am personally more consistently hitting with the Vraks III (3-brst), but that’s most likely just because it’s a burst-fire weapon, and I can’t aim for $#!7. Out in the field, anything could happen, and every millisecond counts. The shot that you missed, your target prioritization (threat assessment), your situational awareness of your teammates’ locations, who/what they’re fighting, etc, all influence how we make those quick decisions. In my experience, the MG XII is just too good. You’re firing a high-damage weapon, with a moderate fire-rate, and with what effectively feels like no recoil. I’ve tried the Mk VII in a few missions, and I simply just can’t stand it. Its great damage makes it pretty decent at BoN, Reaper, staggered Bulwarks, and other low-health Elites. But I’ve compared its performance in all of those scenarios to the MG XII Lasgun; the Lasgun wins.

Whenever I play these… “horde shooter” games–games that are like Left 4 Dead–damage is something we all have to consider, but ,my battle philosophy is to build for scenarios rather than just dealing damage. For example, I don’t “main the flame shotgun”. Rather, I “main a playstyle that’s excellent at shredding hordes but also gives me an option to do damage to Snipers, because F those Snipers”. And of course, this means that I do actually main the flame shotgun, but it’s the playstyle of lighting distant hordes on fire, so that they either die before they approach my team, or they’re one melee hit from dying, thus reducing the amount of drama my teammates have to deal with. And also, Snipers can eat my flame shells.

I’m not saying I’d say no to it getting more damage, but the fact that it’s semi-automatic is a good thing for some play styles.

The headhunters have a lot of weakspot triggered blessings - and if you’re going for headshots anyway, they’ll kill most light targets in one shot, so the burst fire variants would waste a lot of ammo compared to the semi-auto one (even with the bigger magazine and ammo capacity).

I regularly use a Vraks VII with Between the Eyes and Ghost, which gives fairly impressive ranged resistance at least as long I can chain the headshots.

Would the Kantrael XII Lasgun be better in the same role? Quite probably, and I often do use it instead, but I feel like the XII is quite likely to get hit with a nerf bat at some point, so I don’t want to get too attached to it. (It’s certainly out of whack with the other lasguns, and I’m not sure that FS would bring them up rather than the XII down).

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Thank you for sharing your observations on T5 difficulty! My goal is to one day be cool enough to play T5 normally.

MG XII Infantry Lasgun

There are weapons that are well-rounded, but the MG XII excels at being well-rounded, except not so much against hordes; there are guns that are better at horde control. On the note about Profane (gray rarity) weapons; I think the power level doesn’t matter as far as damage. I had a Profane weapon that was–we’ll say–70% dmg compared to the same model Transcendent (yellow rarity) weapon that I’ve been using with like 60% dmg. The Profane version dealt more damage, and I think the power level seems to be even more arbitrary than I thought it was, because I believe that it calculates power based on the stat modifiers (bars), Perks, and Blessings, to include the tier level (1-4) of the Blessings.

Agripinaa Mk VIII Braced Autogun

I enjoyed this weapon, using it to go from mob-clearing to taking out that nearby Special/Elite at mid-range. I think the damage is decent, but ever since they released the Mk IX Shotgun (w/ flame shells) that’s been my go-to. The flame shotgun excels at close and mid-range DPS, and I can use it as a long-range weapon with the balance being the dmg falloff. They updated the flame shotgun so that its flame shots no longer apply burn DoTs through walls, but after testing a single-file line of like 50-70 mobs [using the Creature Spawner mod], I’ve verified that the flame shots retain their “infinite pierce” through hordes. It just hits everything. I think the Mk VIII Braced Autogun could also use a magazine boost. The braced weapons are… weird? It’s just moderately more accurate hipfire, but seriously, Snipers–can’t do jack against them. I could suppress them, sure, but they really just need to die. I wouldn’t use the Mk VIII Braced Autogun for anything outside of hordes and lower-health Specialists and Elites.

Agripinaa Mk I Infantry Autogun

I’m glad you said what you said, especially the bit about manually burst-firing with it. I wrote that specifically in my Google Drive spreadsheet that it’s actually decent against Specials/Elites when manually burst-firing. I do also recall liking its hipfire. On that same spreadsheet, I wrote “CONDEMN”, because I overall didn’t like it, but like anytime I do these reviews [whether I post them or not, and for every game], I always “forgive” everything and, in this case, would give this gun another try. For the other Infantry Autoguns, the I noted that the Graia VIII is much better for mobs, and that the ADS was good for Specials/Elites when manually burst-firing. I’ll take it out to the range (i.e. Psykhanium) again and see how it feels. The Colmnus is awful. I’ve logged only a single Veteran using it on T4 difficulty. I’m now wondering if they were either taking it out for a test run, or if they genuinely liked it. I should start asking my teammates about their weapon choices, but I’m an introvert, so that’s difficult for me.

Vraks Mk III Headhunter Autogun

Looking only at numbers, the Vraks VII (semi-auto) actually wins in DPS, but the obvious issue is hitting weakspots consistently; thus, effectively, the Vraks Mk III actually does win at DPS better than the other two Headhunter Autoguns. Otherwise, I enjoy the Vraks III, because a single bullet staggers Snipers, alongside using it for decent mob-clearing. In reality, as I’ve publicized my observations above, I have a bias towards “horde control, but also F those Snipers”, which is why I gravitate towards weapons that can fit both of those roles, such as the flame shotgun.

The Helbore Lasguns

Yeah, that bayonet needs to be Ripper Gun-level melee. It’s literally a knife (e.g. like Combat Blade) attached to the gun. I favor the Mk III, the slowest-firing, heaviest-hitting variant. The Mk III is amazing for basically guaranteeing that that Trapper/Pox Hound/Flamer/Rager in the distance doesn’t get a chance to close in. I think the bayonet attack could benefit as follows: It could guarantee applying a Stagger and maybe 2-6 stacks of Bleed? JUSTIFICATION: It’s a slow melee attack that literally no one uses, because chucking a Scripture would do more damage than that. It wouldn’t break the weapon if they maintained its melee attack speed, but gave it a stagger+bleed effect as a way to kind of “oh grut me a poxwalker is about to strike me with his axe guess i better stagger them with my gun and then quickly switch to my real melee weapon and finish them off”. And lastly, I also hate its iron sights. Since I can’t aim for $#!7, I honestly just don’t bring it out to the field. Lol.

Ripper Guns & Twin-linked Stubbers

Ripper Guns are amazing at burst-clearing hordes, while I the Stubbers are better at controlling sustained hordes. I wasn’t aware the playerbase was bashing on Ripper Guns, but looking at my spreadsheet, that is a plausible explanation for why I’ve only seen 8 Ripper Guns vs 30 Stubbers–and yes, I’ve seen the other Ogryn guns too, but just didn’t count them for this response.

I was aware that Brittleness applies to range attacks, but I think Brittleness is a ranged weapon-only Blessing, isn’t it? I know melee weapons have a similar Blessing called Rending, but they both act differently. Brittleness applies permanently to the enemy, while Rending applies to the melee weapon only and for a duration. I might remember those incorrectly, and please let me know if I did. This info is on that “Darktide [dot] GamesLantern” website. Regardless, I do love me some Brittleness. AND Rending.

Yes, the Gorgonum is the heavily favored Stubber, and it’s dmg is too much. Usage stats:

  • Gorgonum = 16
  • Krourk = 8
  • Achlys = 6

Using the Creature Spawner, I was able to verify that all Stubbers pierce 3 mobs and nothing more. So, I decided to bring my own Achlys into the field, but holy Hel, mid-range Specials/Elites can easily close in. The stability and recoil is something to work with, but its damage is bad! Perhaps buffing its damage and keeping its accuracy, recoil, and stability would make it more viable. But also, yes, the Gorgonum is actually too good.

Thanks again for your courteous response and perspectives from a T5 difficulty standpoint! The more information I have on how to properly annihilate heretics for the God-Emperor, the closer I get to running T5 [literally haven’t touched it yet].

When I was testing the Mk VII Headhunter Autogun and comparing it to the MG XII Infantry Lasgun, the MG XII won in most situations, except that the Headhunter was better at mob-control and lower-health Specials/Elites. Last night, I actually played around with the guns I don’t prefer, and I admittedly did notice the power that the Mk II Headhunter actually has. It’s the fact that the MG XII Lasgun has effectively no recoil, and much greater dmg. And even when testing it against a stationary BoN [using the Creature Spawner mod in Psykhanium], the MG XII won consistently. Its ammo efficiency is unbalanced with its damage. I had to reload my Mk VII Headhunter once just to kill the BoN–although, I think if I literally had like 1 or 2 more bullets, I wouldn’t have had to reload. Additionally, out in the field, you won’t always have the luxury of solely focusing on a BoN’s back-pimple, because of mobs, Specials, Elites, teammate dying from getting ganged upon, etc.

A few people, including your response, have made me realize just how… incomplete my gun reviews are. I never took the time to look at every single Blessing for every weapon. That is definitely something I need to look into. I can’t imagine the true potential of these guns just yet, as I’ve basically only reviewed them for their stat modifiers (the bars), and didn’t really think of Blessings. For example, I love using the flame shotgun with No Respite, which simply increases dmg on already-staggered enemies. THIS AFFECTS THE BURNING-OVER-TIME EFFECT. Discovering that blew my mind, and it does make a huge difference [Creature Spawner not needed for testing this].

Thank you for your constructive feedback. I really like hearing what my fellow guardsmen, fanatics, witches, and Ogryns are doing with their builds. Honestly, big dmg numbers isn’t satisfying to me. It’s getting through the mission with as little casualties as possible, with a few of those heroic moments scattered in between.

Why can’t you write a normal response, how am I supposed to reply to a ducking wall of text? Get a grip on your inner monologue man.

It’s nice to finally see some discussion on the Vraks VII Headhunter, especially in comparison to the Kantrael XII Lasgun. I’ve seen a lot of very good players disregarding it and I’m horribly confused as to why. It has decently high base damage, very manageable recoil, and can shoot about as fast as you can click your left mouse button. Combine this with near pinpoint accuracy on your first few shots when hip-firing, it has the ability to be a lot more mobile and deal with rapidly changing situations much easier than a Lasgun can.

That said, hitting breakpoints is just barely possible with needing (for body shots):

  • on average both 78 in damage and stopping power, plus
  • +25% to flak, to hit the breakpoint to 1 shot scab shooters with the Volley Fire out to 15m, plus
  • at least a 10% boost to unarmoured damage to 2 shot a Dreg Shooter without it.

Opening Salvo can help with this, but I’d argue these are some pretty important breakpoints to make the weapon feel competitive, and that’s a mighty difficult weapon to roll. So perhaps most people just haven’t played around with a good one yet.

However, the weapon is unfortunately brought down (compared to the Kantrael XII especially) by two things:

  • Frequently having to reload, and
  • pitifully low Maniac Damage

Considering the most common damage type for specials is Maniac, it makes the weapon almost unusable on Hi-Intensity Damnation, especially when you have to dump half a clip just to kill a single Flamer. To be fair, these problems are innate to all Headhunter Autoguns. It’s pretty useable on anything below that, though.

However, it is a bit baffling when regular and braced Autoguns do MORE damage to Maniacs than other damage types. Damage consistency and logic in this game is pretty whack sometimes. Therefore, I’d strongly suggest buffing the Maniac damage of the weapon. It currently does about 1/5th what the Kantrael XIII does.

In general, I’d suggest:

  • At least 50% more damage to maniac, allowing it to deal up to 330 damage per shot with Volley Fire. This is enough to comfortably 5 shot both Dreg Ragers (or 4 shot with Opening Salvo) and Flamers, and would be close to (but still slightly lower than) the Agripinaa VIII Braced’s damage.

  • 15% more damage to Unarmoured, allowing it to reach the breakpoint for 2-shotting damnation Dreg Stalkers without investing in Unarmoured Damage and 2-shotting Dreg Bruisers if you do.

  • Maybe… 5% more damage to Flak to make reaching the requisite breakpoints slightly less RNG.

I also don’t think it would hurt too much to apply the same (or similar) changes across the board to all Headhunter Autoguns. I haven’t done the math on them, but I doubt it would break anything. Unfortunately, the Kantrael XII Lasgun dwarfs pretty much every other small arms, shooter focused guns in the game at the moment, and it would be nice to see more variety in strong weapons for this category when considering High Intensity Shock Troop Gauntlet Damnation runs.

While the Vraks VII and Kantrael XII are somewhat similar, they do have their comparative advantages and disadvantages.

As you say, the VII is better versus hordes, and the XII better against harder targets.

But as Positron adds, the VII has much more accurate hip fire, so there’s often been cases where I’ve been hip firing into a mob to thin it out as I advance. It also packs two more stamina versus the XII… although the XII’s torch is useful too sometimes.

I don’t think I can say that one is definitively better than the other; the only thing either is completely useless against is carapace armour, and other than that each has a slight edge on certain things.

A few people, including your response, have made me realize just how… incomplete my gun reviews are. I never took the time to look at every single Blessing for every weapon. That is definitely something I need to look into.

They certainly complicate things quite a lot.

As is, the Headhunter and Infantry Lasguns share most of their blessings, and generally they’re weighted towards either slight boosts to crits or effects that trigger on weakspot hits. (Or sometimes both).

The crit blessings probably favour the burst-fire autoguns more (more likely to trigger), but the weakspot ones do tend to weight towards semi-auto, as generally a headshot will kill most light targets on most difficulties.

I will admit that I don’t rate a lot of the Blessings on either; crits are too unpredictable to be useful on a slower firing weapon (it can make a difference on a torrent weapon that’s just being sprayed into a horde, but when you’re expecting a target to either die to one headshot, or two bodyshots, them suddenly dying to one bodyshot probably means you’ve already fired the second shot before you notice) - the old version of Crucian Roulette pushed the crit chance high enough to be somewhat reliable, but I think it’s now forgettable on the Vraks VII. (Maybe still of merit on the III and IX Headhunters, as they’ve got more mag capacity to push the chance higher, and decent odds of it triggering in any given burst near the bottom of the mag).

My favourite is definitely the Ghost/Between the Eyes combination - while I don’t rate Between the Eyes much on its own (if you’re suppressed, getting into cover is a smart idea, rather than trying to nail a headshot to clear it), it synergises well with Ghost, as it stops suppression from ruining the accuracy you need to get Ghost to trigger.

I also feel the pain of reloading the Headhunters more often than other guns.

Currently, I’ve looked at all of the guns’ usability in gameplay/Psykhanium. Admittedly, I did not yet take a look at Blessings, nor did I open the Inspect screen to fully analyze the potential of each gun. For example, I hate the Mk VI Ripper Gun (2-brst hip-fire, or 3-brst braced fire), but I brought it into a match and noticed how easily it was to take down huge mobs at a distance. Then, I checked the Effective Range (Far) modifiers for all Ripper Guns and then Brain Bursted myself; the Mk VI really is meant for long-ranged combat. The utility and potential? I have yet to see, because most Ogryns, including myself, don’t really use it.

I tolerate the Braced guns dealing for dmg per shot than the Headhunters/Infantry Autoguns as applicable, because that makes them better at close-ranged firefights than the Headhunters and Infantry Autoguns. I don’t really used Braced anymore, because Snipers are game-enders. Most people playing in T4 difficulty can dodge and kill Snipers, but it’s when you’re trying to fight off a horde is when they become a real problem.

But as Positron adds, the VII has much more accurate hip fire, so there’s often been cases where I’ve been hip firing into a mob to thin it out as I advance.

Ah, I see. That’s yet another small detail about the guns I never would’ve considered; hip-fire accuracy. I do have that Range Finder mod, too, so perhaps it’ll be more useful to me than just a cool thing to have. I’ve added “looking at each weapons’ hip-fire potential” as another aspect of gunplay to consider when reviewing them. I hip-fire more often than I realize, so it’s definitely part of gameplay to consider how well a gun can hip-fire.

I think throughout next week, I’m gonna more extensively look at every gun, starting with a clean slate and giving every single one of them another chance. This is really expensive, as all of my Operatives are running out of Plasteel. At the end of the day, this is not only a way to view the guns in greater detail, but also an excuse for me to just play more. And that’s fine, because I enjoy the game, and I like people’s feedback. I can’t even touch Damnation, but one day, I want to be the very best like no one ever was.

I think this really depends on difficulty. The Kantrael XII Lasgun scales very well at literally any difficulty in the game. It’s perhaps the most versatile ranged weapon there is, which is quite fitting for a Lasgun.

The Vraks VII Headhunter falls off HARD at higher difficulties. It’s lack of maniac damage and small-ish clip size become really evident when you need more than 1-2 things dead in a hurry. On Heresy and normal Damnation though, I can get quite similar performance out of it as I can a Kantrael XII without too much more effort, and the few advantages it has over the Kantrael can shine a lot more.

That said, the Crucial Roulette nerf really hit the weapon hard. Before, it was able to make up a lot of its lack of damage through crits. Its crit damage is insanely high, enough to make up for some of it’s shortcomings vs. certain damage types. Against beefier targets, running a crit build would just about guarantee you 1-2 crits, making time to kill much more reasonable and taking the emphasis off of meeting it’s very strict breakpoints.

Now it doesn’t really have enough crit chance to be reliable in this regard, so the consistency of the Kantrael XII makes it a much stronger pick overall. Which saddens me a bit, because I definitely find the Vraks VII a more fun, nuanced gun to use.

Everyone, I would like to thank you all for your feedback thus far. I have been trying out every single gun in both the Psykhanium and in Heresy missions to gauge how they feel, and what they could, and should, be used for. I have been taking a look at their Blessings, researching how the Blessings work by investing Plasteel and Diamantine to get as many of them as possible, and also have theories [for the Blessings I don’t have] about how each one pairs with the other.

I plan to do a FULL gun feedback at some point in the future, but I have also been playing with various melee weapons as well. Same deal with melee weapons; Psykhanium, Heresy missions, and Blessings, in both theory and in missions. I plan to split these posts into two different ones, and eventually discuss builds. Thanks again for everyone’s feedback so far. If there is anyone else who has anything to add, please do so. I check back here once or twice a week, depending on how active the post is.

No view on the Agri shotgun? I like its slug alt fire, and personally think it trumps the helbore being able to one shot specials at range while also giving you a fast shooter squad clear.

I know kantrael can too, but that slug is particularly good for long range headshots.

The Autopistol

:muscle: :muscle: :muscle: