Would chain weapons be more viable if when activating the chain and connects with an enemy it creates suppression?
1 Like
They need to shorten the time to kill when you use special, add some kind of damage resistance to it or make it deal 1.5x more damage. Iâm fine with them adding cooldown, so you canât spam it against every single target, but immobilizing yourself for 5 seconds each time feels absolutely awful, considering the mediocre damage and the possibility to get hit.
On Veteran Power Sword completely overshadows Chainaxes. It requires charging as well, but the combo is instant and deals way more damage, not to mention 200% better horde clear. On Zealot you can use other stuff, especially now with the release of Relic Blade. On Psyker Iâve never seen anyone use it. Chainxe should be one of the best anti-armor weapons, but itâs one of the worst, because when you face elite packs using special is all risk and no reward.
I also hate how chainaxe snaps to one target on light attacks and jerks you camera at that moment. And I donât like the moveset where you spam heavy attacks and push attacks for horde clear. For me itâs a weapon that has absolutely no redeeming features, at least I like Eviscerator, even if itâs not too strong nowadays.
6 Likes
suppression would slow enemies from beating you down during that animation.
a good 70% of enemies donât have any suppression response whatsoever. it would help with groaners, bruisers and the gun enemies (that already easy to dodge and dispatch in melee anyway). I think the problem is more that latching to enemies is very poor damage vs the risk and lockout (you canât use other moves or weapons during rip sawing). You have to commit to several full revs to kill 1 Crusher with the Mk2 eviscerator, and its about 3 with the Mk4 chainsword as well (unless using the armor pen from FoTF for instance). Obviously this is far too weak considering the number of weapons that can 2 or even 1 hit kill them.
2 Likes
Chain weapons need a lot imo. I donât believe one fix would work with all, though.
List of pain points
- stagger values are borked. The revved attack of chainaxe can stun any target. Revved chainsword and revved attacks of the Evi mk XV cannot. This used to be a feature of all revved attacks.
- latching causes motion sickness. I stan that adding camera smoothing would keep the effect but would lessen the visceralness. I personally appreciate the OG DooM feel, but I can empathize that itâs too much now when bosses, muties, hounds, and ragers are zipping all over the place and taking your camera with it.
- breakpoints make or break chain weapons. Chainaxes manage to avoid being universally hated because it doesnât require as much effort to hit very good breakpoints. Chainsword requires work to achieve what chainaxe do at base and even more work to start hitting very good performance. Evi require fenangling of game mechanics to achieve good performance when it should honestly just be better than the other two chain weapons.
- Sound design of the mk XII chainaxe has killed that weapon.
- Evi doesnât have thrust
- No 2-handed chainaxe (with thrust)
- TTK of revved attacks and distribution of damage tics needs to be looked at (example: Zealot does more damage ulting after connecting with revved attacks than before).
Chainsword and chainaxe specifically exist in the same space with minor differences that add up to a lot given the gameâs power creep and I genuinely wouldnât be happy without a rework of chainsword that leans further into its horde clear. By that I mean changing its revved attacks to either not latch or always combo into an overhead strike for elite/boss damage; as it stands the best chainsword gameplay involves almost never revving.
Evi is weird, but l a slight numerical buff might be enough. Slightly better mobility and improved hit-stun on revved attacks so it stops elites for sure. I donât want it to outperform the relic blade, I just think itâs slightly underpowered for a class locked weapon.
4 Likes
Agree, Id say just go doom and have an animation play on a confirmed kill. Add exections into the store for some sweet premium Aquilia and now we are cooking.
Well, the Mk2 Eviscerator is actively just the worst of the both of them, and itâs rev hit that does an overhead is a light, so that would be why thatâs the case. It and the Mk 4 Chainsword (of which I heavily enjoy using) are meant to be used as Maniac shredding tools, not as heavy armor killers. In all the builds I use my beloved Chainsword in, itâs with Flak + Maniac with a Boltgun or Onslaught Autogun for Carapace/Unyeilding, and the thing functions like a monster. I donât use the Mk2 Eviscerator though, but thatâs just mainly due to the XV just being one of the most busted things ever created (before it happened to be power crept by them giving Duelling Sword to every single tiny class and now everything is weighed against it mentally even though the weapon is clearly unhealthy for the game).
To me, chain weapons are actually in a completely balanced state, and function insanely well for their individual purposes (so long as you use the good/right marks). One needs to work with them, they donât do everything for you like a Duelling Sword does, but if you play around with them they will do everything you need them to do. Main thing to keep in mind while using them is that they are strictly better Shock Mauls, they will stun the target in front of you as you cleave through them. So if you position yourself in a way that that target takes up most of the space in front of you, other enemies will have to walk around it to hit you, more often than not letting you get the rev off before one needs to dodge/jump away. The Rev will also continue regardless of what the enemy does, so so long as you donât otherwise cancel it, the final tics will kill your target, even if the Mutant ran 3 footbal feilds away from you or some other effect pushed the target away, and it only counts where the initial hit landed as well, so just keep ripping and youâll be golden. Also, rev on the run up, thereâs a Blessing that increases your move speed when you do so for a reason (you donât ever use it, but itâs meant to encourage that point xD Reving in the face of the enemy instead of dodging away, reving, and walking back into them I feel is half peoples issue).
To put some examples of what I mean in a block of gifs below (note that outside of my Zealot, all the builds Iâm showing off are gun builds, with barely any investment in melee damage beyond a 5% or a Precision Strikes here and there, this can be achieved with passive investment on any class, and I often use them in builds that donât take 10% attack speed to, as they function great as back up âdamage focusedâ melees, which is kinda the point of them. Light attack strings on the Chain Axe clear waves just fine, heavy attack strings on the Chainsword IV with savage sweep and rampage does the same. Also, these results for specifically the Chainsword are with a low Shredder percentage, because again, that weapon is meant for Maniacs and below, not a Crusher, thatâs what the Chain Axe is for).
Ehh, since most donât read anyway Iâll just put the full gifs in anyway (verses not having them embed if I try and collapse them).
(One shotting things with the Chainsword)
(Two shotting a mauler with the chainsword, while killing a shotgunner in 70% ish of a rev)
(One stack of thrust btw, one, you can do this without even charging if you have headtaker stacked, absolutely melts Monstrosities with both of them comboâd together)
(Takes two, one if you crit/charge forward, which can also be forced with Bloodthirsty, so every kill after the first is a one shot)
(1 shots everything else)
(One can also weave in a push with all chain weapons if they need to make space)
(ohh, and to showcase the âmove but still hitting itâ)
Though, as I sit here making all this danny does bring up a few good points, and to address some.
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I think the camera jerk does need to be looked at, I think âinitial hitâ should be held onto, and then during the rev gently but quickly turn the camera to that initial position, then hold the rev hit there regardless of what the enemy does. I think the worst part of these weapons (despite not being effected by it myself) is the fact that if the enemy flies away from you for a myriad of reasons, so to does your camera and view port, and Iâd rather just lock in place and continue to be able to walk my character around the impact point, verses following the mutant to space because the Ogryn hit it with a rock.
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Chainsword staggers any target youâre supposed to hit with it, Evis should stagger Crushers and such again though.
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The Evis doesnât have Thrust because itâs on the crit class, and Bloodthirsty was given to it, though Iâd trade the two if I could.
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They changed the distribution of the damage to be more back loaded way back in the day because it was âtoo strongâ (and at the time when they where introduced, it totally was), but now Duelling Sword exists so having itâs damage be evenly distributed or even front loaded seems totally balanced in comparison now I say XD so would appreciate that change.
And yeah, Chainswords are meant for add clear, they got Savage Sweep and your choice of damage beyond that, and I always use it as a heavy attack wave clear machine that dumpsteres Ragers/Maulers if I have to with a rev. Would be cool if they let it properly lean into that roll verses happening to be good at it with one combo string and a blessing.
2 Likes
last time i tried chainswords i got trapped 3 times by trappers i was actively sawing through i havent touched them since
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Chain weapons just all need to do what original eviscerator does on sweeping trash⌠cleaves through them so much, getting stuck on trash while trying to hit that 1 elite is the worst thing for them right now.
Stop adding thrust to things. Relic Blade is a completely fine and high damage weapon without show horning thrust into it. Evi and other 2 handed weapons donât need it.
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Thrust is horrible for game balance. Either the weapon literally needs it to function and is dogwater otherwise or it doesnt need it and is insane with it.
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Agreed with the first half, not sure about the second. I never run Thrust on Chaxe, rev light hits all relevant breakpoints on Zealot and is way quicker anyway. Better to just power stack with slaughterer and head taker IMO. Fully charging a rev heavy is basically never worth the time commitment to my mind.
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Yah I really like chain axe too have a build with it only every character able. Easy to spam lights slaughter and headtaker, rev heavy for elites. Just need 10% attack speed.
âŚif rev cleaved through non-elites it would be perfect
^ QFE.
A few of us have brought this up when the topic comes up. The jarring/jerky camera movements from sticky attacks are really not brain-friendly and are a potential health hazard.
There needs to be a decoupling of the arms+model+crosshair for these types of nauseating camera movements, the bolt pistol and and 1/2 twin stubber suffer from the same issue.
Bad enough youâre in danger being locked in-place sawing or have to give up damage to unlatch and scoot out of there, getting a headache or nausea on top of that is enough to turn me off them completely.
Quite frankly the sticky chain attacks might be a relic (no pun) of the pre#13 days, it looks cool but it doesnât work in many if not most scenarios.
Maybe chain weapons need to get the Relic Blade âheatâ mechanic for powered ârevvedâ attacks in lieu of stickies.
Iâm sure many of us would love to use them all given how cool and iconic they are, but they need a decent looking at.
Itâs been a while since I played with it due to sticky headaches, but IIRC most of the time, maybe nearly all, you donât ever really need revved attacks, just spam more lights with the 2 power blessings. You might actually lose out on TTK with revved attacks unless itâs the initial engagement or drive-by muties.
1 Like
true
also evis wouldnât fit that great with thrust, it would be boring gameplay
beside removing damage cap
one thing iâd like them to check again is the stamina management when dodging once a rev attack connects, it removes 60% of your current stamina which is a bit weird. considering evis sometimes may struggle with stamina. best anyway is doing a rev attack for then ulting afterwards, staggering enemies and getting also an extra free guaranteed crit, but would be cool if they would check that, giving more room with stamina.
i think it should be also easy for evis to stun lock crushers when doing heavy rev attacks because chainaxe can do that easily with crushers just by doing rev light attacks and perma stun lock crushers xd
2 Likes
I always thought myself, why does your camera get stuck on a revâd attack instead of just you know, making your arms and weapon stick to it, similar to how it works when youâre cleaving through enemies but hit a hard cap
(you can move your camera freely, but your viewmodel sticks/moves towards the enemy). They could also put a limit in how much you can move your camera away before it stops being stuck on the target
Literally almost anything is better than the system we have
2 Likes
I would just add bleed as natural part of them, so they donât need blessings for it.
I would just be happy with auto-block being turned on during the special attack animation strike (similar to when youâre picking a teammate up).
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I feel this would encroach on Devil Swords one niche, but it would also absolutely fix everything outside of the camera when it comes to chain weapons (since they come with so much stamina so going into a âblockingâ state would pretty much always make the full rev safe), so I could see it being a easy âbandaid fixâ that also just stays in the game forever because Fatshark.
I think that the Mk XII Chainaxe would benefit from getting a Light 3 Attack that utilises the Stab from its Push Attack. This new and improved Light Attack Chain would suit the Mk XII Chainaxe better in my opinion.
Light Attack Chain before:
Sweep â Sweep
Light Attack Chain after:
Sweep â Sweep â Stab