Then don’t reply, but I was summoned and so I’m still going to explain why shields are good. If you think shields are useless, I dare to say you’re using them wrong. I’m not going to claim shield are secretly the top of the meta or anything, but they’re still great on some classes and they definitely bring something worth bringing to the team. The strenghts of shields are such that they aren’t really great on anything below Legend, and only really start to shine on Cata. On anything lower they have difficulty making up for their downsides. I’ll start by talking about the strong points of shields in general, and then I’ll go into the specific shield + weapon combos.
The most obvious pro of shields is their stagger power. With most of them you have easy access to a powerful bash, and their pushes are top-notch as well. It’s quite easy to get enough stagger power on any class to be able to stagger everything up to a Plaguemonk out of their combo on Cata (+25% power vs. Skaven / Berserkers which can include the Enhanced Power talent, in combination with the Opportunist trait) and knock chaos warriors about for a little bit. This damn near trivializes berserkers, who tend to create some of the most dangerous situations in the game. Like the end of Old Haunts, or things like that. Stormvermin and Maulers mixed in a horde? Who cares, back they go! No space and relentless enemies: Normally punishing, but such stuff is no big deal with a shield.
Even if you think staggering stuff is an inferior way of fighting and your reply would be something like “BuT tHe BeSt StaTuS eFfeCt is DeAd, NoT sTaGgErEd!”, I’d like to point out that a shield can stagger stuff a lot faster and a lot better than any other weapon could kill it, and there are plenty of very realistic (even common) situations where a shielded weapon actually has higher effective DPS than most other weapons, because the shield can actually make space to attack safely. Elites or shielded enemies mixed in hordes, a Monster + horde; basically any kind of high-density, high-pressure situation. And sure: These situations can also be solved by other weapons by doing stuff like kiting things apart to get an opening, but sometimes not having to move around as much is a definite advantage other weapons do not have, and if a shield creates safety and openings for attacking non shield wielding teammates can do more damage than they could have without a shield user present as well. (Sometimes people argue shield stagger is good for the team because of the stagger-damage system, but to be honest I think that damage advantage is pretty insignificant in reality. Even with Bulwark, which is a really weak talent. The spacemaking is the main advantage there.) And (excluding Firesword, I guess) THP on stagger with a shield is more effective than any other kind of THP generation, and adds a lot to the survivabilty of a class.
The mistake most people make is that they see shields as only good for stagering and they therefore only use them as such by chain staggering with pushes and bashes, and not doing much else. Then they say shields are weak, and the team would be better off with another killing weapon. Which would be true in that situation, but most people doing this are usually not playing on Cata and they are simply doing it wrong. There actually is a time for chain staggering for a bit sometimes, but it takes some experience to recognise that time. Most of the time it’s a lot better to make space, hit a few times, and re-evaluate from block. Heck, a lot of times it’s even better to just use the weapon that comes with the shield and forgo staggering for a while. And the weapons that come with the shields are actually a lot more viable than most give them credit for with the right combos. (I’ll go into some of those below.)
Another big advantage shields have is their blocking power. Now, in Vermintide just holding block is usually a very bad strategy for a myriad of reasons. The most dangerous things in this game do not give a damn about blocks (overheads, monsters, specials, etc.), you usually can do something more useful instead of blocking (like attacking), blocking just causes density to build up in front of you, and even against stuff that can be blocked your block won’t last long. So the shields’ blocking power is usually ignored, because people have learned that blocking is relatively useless. But being able to buy a second or two because even an entire horde + elites can’t touch you is great. Being able to not die for a long time because you regenerate stamina faster than they can drain it is good. Being able to block overheads when you don’t have space is really good. Being able to not die when a monster + horde is coming down on you is amazingly good. Being able to pull of a rescue in thick density where nothig else could saves runs.
In fact, shields’ blocking capabilities make up for their biggest weakness, which is their bad mobility. No speed and no dodges mean no kiting in Vermintitde, right? Well, normally that totally does. Executioner, 2H Hammer, etc… But not if you can also shrug off hits like they’re not even there! A shield totally allows you to kite a horde, a dozen elites, and an angry Minotaur until they all die of boredom and exaustion. The ending of Dark Omen? Piece of cake. Shields not being able to kite is a misunderstanding. Shields are pretty damn good at kiting, really! It’s just done in a totally different manner.
I can’t deny shields don’t have weaknesses. They have slightly (slightly, when done right!) less DPS than normal weapons. They don’t do much against most specials. But the core of the matter actually is that shields are usually overlooked because playing them effectively is so very different from playing normal weapons in this game. You need a little more patience. You require completely different reflexes, even instincts! You block when you normally shouldn’t, you stay still when you’d dodge away normally, you stick to places that that benefit you but would be a death sentence with normal weapons, kiting works different, and fighting everything works different. Play them like other weapons, and yeah: they’ll suck. But play them to their strenghts, and you’ll see that they are a lot better than they’re given credit for. That’s the main reason for their bad reputation if you ask me: Misuse.
Now, I’ll try to give a few tips on using some of the different shield & weapon combinations in the game specifically. Since this is originally a Bardin thread, I’ll focus on his weapons.
Axe & Shield
This weapon has some very obvious strong points on top of the usual shield characteristics described above. Its lights are great for dealing with armor. But it’s slow, and terrible for doing anything against a horde that isn’t staggering it, right? Well, no. The second heavy, the sweep, is actually a really good attack for damaging a horde. Look up its damage and cleave profile. Because it’s horizontal it’s good for headshotting multiple enemies. The trick of this weapon is mastering the combos. This weapon is low key really versatile when you get those down, and you’ll be able to use this weapon to its full potential when you can instinctively switch from one combo to the next without thinking.
The first useful combos to learn are those with the heavy sweep, because that attack is key to this weapon’s damage potential against multiple enemies. The sweep follows either light 1, heavy 1 (the bash), or the pushattack. It’s good to know that after the sweep you can do light 1 again, chaining them endlessly. Be careful not to do a heavy after it, because that is heavy 3: a single target attack. (Which can be used to switch from horde to single target fighting, though.) Light 2 chains into heavy 3 endlessly for single targets. The push-bash (heavy 1) combo can be chained endlessly when in a pinch or when you need THP.
This weapon is good on Ranger & Engineer because it gives a lot of safety and THP, and they can damage with ranged weapons well. It’s particularly great on Ironbreaker because of his talents, and it pairs with drakefire weapons like a fine wine. This is my currently favorite setup with it. (I know the build generator is slightly outdated but it gets the gist.)
Hammer & Shield
This weapon is like the A&S, in that you need to master combos to get the very most out of this weapon. It has the same powerful sweep A&S has, with the difference that it chains with light 2 on this weapon. Its heavy profile is a little simpler, because it only has the bash and the sweep, not a third attack. But its main strenght is the pushattack and light 3 follow-up. That is stamina hungry, but amazingly good.
This weapon is good enough on all of Bardin’s careers, however I feel this weapon does best on Kruber, specificaly on Foot Knight. Footknight’s talents are basically made for this weapon. This is my favorite setup with it. Really high damage, for a Foot Knight, and stellar staggering.
As for the other shield weapons: Sword & Shield is very much like Axe & Shield, but its lights have a different purpose and its single target damage combo is pushattack - heavy 1. Both Spear & Shields are different beasts altogether because they can’t bash. Brettonian Sword & Shield is an odd one, because it’s basically a single target weapon with control options built in for a class that doesn’t need that combination of traits. I won’t go into much further detail here because this post is already enough a wall of text, and it was a Bardin weapon thread to start with.
EDIT:
I forgot to mention Hammer / Mace & Shield’s combo of doing pushattack - heavy 1 (the bash). That is really good for controlling a mixed horde and taking out a high value target at the same time, which is a rare function for a weapon. That’s a definite advantage it has over Axe & Shield.
