An Expression of Love and Guilt

What in the OP’s post makes you think this?

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I’d argue that positive feedback is still immensely useful, as it tells the developers which features are fine at the moment. For example, it’s generally agreed that the core gameplay loop of DT is immensely fun, and aside from a few tweaks, is balanced. The frustrations we have are in other “features”.

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Their whole post presents itself as if it’s trying to shame certain players for “hating” on the game, as if the current state of Darktide is somehow undeserved or the players’ fault. In their post they equate criticism to “entitled things”. People hating the game for not adding the promised solo mode must be “entitled” too, right?

It is a bit silly trying to defend a big company that sells premium cosmetics for 1/3 price of the base game. Fatshark is not a poor solo indie game developer who’s just trying to get by.

I don’t want them to say sorry to Fatshark on the community’s behalf.

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I didn’t view the “rude and entitled things” portion of their post as inclusive of all feedback, and the OP’s response to the thread seems to confirm that they didn’t mean that, but I can see how you might interpret it that way.

They didn’t.

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That they heard the feedback from a year and a half ago on changing player voice/height makes me wonder if they do actually know every single thing the community wants but are just slow as molasses.

Like, I wouldnt be at all surprised to hear that they have been struggling to figure out a replacement for the crafting they are satisfied with, which is why the revamp of crafting is coming out after the skill tree when the crafting was more in demand.

Not constructive to bandy words with the Badwin. He’ll selectively slice a single line from a wonderfully concise post and frame you in a poor light with it.

Best just to try and ignore him!

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They are slow as molasses. Fatshark time is like Valve time but infinitely more aggravating.

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I can’t speak for OP of course, but I really feel like you’re getting stuck on semantics here (no offense, and I mean it: this is not an insult). I doubt OP feels guilty in the literal meaning of the word, after all as you pointed out that wouldn’t make any sense.

Instead, imagine that you were watching a movie with a bunch of friends, a movie you really love. But instead of enjoying the movie for what it is, some of those friends focus on tearing it down every which way they can. From the tiniest plot holes to every bit of lackluster acting, weird dialogue, every minor factual inconsistency, the way it differs from the book it was based on, everything. All the time, over and over.

You might even agree with them - like how I genuinely believe Fatshark really deserves a lot of the criticism they get! But right or not isn’t the issue. It’s about the act itself: They could’ve just pointed out a few of the issues, then moved on and accepted it for what it is. Instead they just keep at it, focusing on nothing but the flaws over and over, interrupting at every turn and making sure no-one else can enjoy it either!

So it’s not just “guilt” per se, but rather just feeling sad, annoyed, ashamed, even confused as to why they can’t just enjoy it for what it is? Both for their sake as well as the movie’s. Guilt is there too ofc, you might feel guilty for liking or even suggesting a movie you loved only to see no-one else does, nor are they even trying to.

On a related issue, I want to get back to my earlier comment:

I can see now why what I said would come off as passive-aggressive. It wasn’t intended that way. I’m neurodivergent (mild autism, ADHD, etc.) so I sometimes struggle with the hidden meanings of words or phrases, which has led to so many misunderstandings in my life believe me. :frowning_face: English is also my third language so that doesn’t help either. But I now understand what happened here.

I meant what I said there literally, not as some thinly veiled attack. People are different and not all of us work the same way (thank god). And I definitely don’t consider my being overly sensitive as some strength here, it’s the opposite if anything. Most of my friends don’t work the way I do and I don’t judge them for that either.

I simply meant that some, like myself, feel uncomfortable with too much negativity. Like watching people in heated arguments or using abusive language irl, books, movies, games, etc. Doesn’t change anything about what happened here however. Blocking someone just like that without even attempting to discuss or clarify? Not cool. Even if I don’t deny that I might have reacted just as rashly myself on more than one occasion. x.x

I get what you’re saying in this comparisson I really do, but it just doesn’t work here.

We’re not friends, we’re not in a front room watching a movie. We’re on the forums, trying to offer feedback or urge the devs to focus on the things that need addressing.

The movie is finished and released, the game is literally in development right now.

I do agree with the concept of what you’re saying, but would instead say we’re early movie screener people watching a pre release, and we’re saying “Hey, did you have to remove that? It worked well in the previous test. Also, the plot here feels rushed.”

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I empathize somewhat with this perspective. For what it’s worth, my natural baseline of emotional sensitivity is definitely on the higher end without proper management by my more rational side, so I can understand what you’re getting at. The problem is that that experience is entirely subjective. It doesn’t have to mean anything to anyone else if they decide it doesn’t. And it wouldn’t be wrong of them to do so either. This is why we have to always fall back on what is demonstrably true to all observers and the unfortunate fact is that when it comes to Darktide and Fatshark’s management of it there have been false promises, poor communication and a plethora of other issues along the way. Things that would understandably aggravate most people, especially when their time and money (which by extension involves more time if you really wanna go deep with it) are involved.

So, that leaves us with the situation the community is in now. Yes there are great parts of the game and in many aspects it knocks it out of the park, but the opposite is also equally, and possibly more, true. Whilst it is good to remind yourself of the positives from time to time it’s a natural human behavior to latch onto the negatives with more energy than the positives because the positives don’t require “addressing” with any sort of urgency, really just a rather simple metaphorical nod of appreciation. With all that in mind, we naturally turn our attention to the problems and to their source. Their source in this situation is Fatshark, since we don’t have any specific individuals to blame. For better or worse, that ends up including those who probably did an amazing job and have nothing to do with the problems of the game. Now here’s the key part; that they get lumped into this or that the Fatshark label is constantly under fire is not the communities fault, it is the leadership of the companies fault. They hold the power, responsibility and capability. It might seem simplistic at a glance but I really don’t think it is. Clearly the raw talent exists in the company, so there remains little else to blame but the management of it.

So yeah, the fact that most of the discourse around the game is negative is sad and unfortunate, but it’s completely understandable and a normal, reasonable reaction to what has been presented to us. If this is to change, Fatshark has to actually do something to address the issues people keep bringing up. With words, yes, but especially with actions.

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I mean like I said critique is different. It’s not just fine, it’s absolutely necessary. The movie thing was just meant as an example for why and what feelings too much negativity can evoke. OP is worried about how all the topics and discussions lately is negative, and I share exactly in those feelings when I look at what’s going on here or over at Steam or Reddit.

But as I said earlier, critique isn’t the same as open hostility and toxicity. Some people do the former, some latter, some both.

I agree, mostly, but only up to a point. As I said earlier, while the frustration is understandable and the cause there is definitely just, it’s no excuse for the toxicity itself. Just because something is normalized doesn’t make it right, as any woman or member of a minority can attest to.

I want to emphasize that there’s 2 points we’ve been talking about here (at least to my understanding). One is the negativity itself and how it feels. That includes arguing, critique, everything in general even the valid concerns I often even agree with. And you’re absolutely right in that it’s a personal issue and not something I should expect others to concern themselves with. If anything, conflict avoidance just breeds its own problem so I’m honestly thankful that others can do that. But it is what it is, and I feel like this is mostly what OP was referring to and I share in that feeling. That’s all.

The other, is when that negativity goes beyond. Not just critique, arguments and distress, but into abusiveness and toxicity. Focusing on nothing but the worst of expectations, twisting every word on purpose while showering the devs and any players that might disagree with personal insults, abusive language, attempts to discredit & defame them, even resorting to stuff like stalking profiles & messages, threats etc. I haven’t seen the worst examples here (yet), but I have over at Steam. This is way past what’s constructive, and into vindictive, malicious, evil. While even this kind of behaviour can of course be understandable depending on circumstances, it’s never ok. Not in my opinion. :slightly_frowning_face:

No argument there. Even movie screeners must occasionally get some drunk middle aged balding white man smoking a cigar shouting “This movie is s**t!”

But I promise, we’ve spoken to Catfish and she tells us she understands our frustration. So we should be cool, I hope!

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I don’t disagree. Only thing I’d do is double down on not diverting unnecessary energy towards the toxic ones. It’s just noise. Next to none of those people would say the things they say the way they say them if stood face to face with an actual person. They’re just emotionally unregulated and take out their frustrations in childlike ways.

Is their frustration valid? Yes.
Is their behavior cool or even vaguely mature? No.

But it is what it is. It’s just another microcosm of humanity.

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There is nothing fun about playing the game for weeks. Earn 1.6 million Ordo dockets and have to spend them on repeatedly buying one weapon in the small hope that you might get a RNG chance of getting something barely usable, that also has the right perks and blessings you are after.

Fun to me, is being able to play the game because I want too and getting rewarded for doing so, whilst being able to play about with builds, not because I am forced too overcome some RNG BS.

Or… If you really want to keep us playing, then reward us with resources to upgrade our weapons as we see fit.

For example - All weapons start with a base score of 320. They can all be upgraded too 380 with stat’s spread how you want them.

You can find perks and blessing on broken weapons during a run, or from the weapons supplied from the shops as per normal.

When you get a blessing, you learn how it world and can applied to all weapons and your characters. Rather than doing it individually for every god damn weapon and character.

The harder the mission the higher resources rewards to upgrade your weapon to legendary etc

Get rewarded with garbage, legendary? Who care’s, break it down and get legendary resources.

Also, don’t hid this stuff behind a ***king pay wall.

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