A solution to the THP generation system

We’ll once again get everything fixed all at once.
When S2 hits the fan, which is imo in 3-4 weeks.
So they probably expect us to play the game in the current state during the event.

What event? :wink:

It been discussed a bit over the summer, a lot of different ideas. Myself and a few others were trying to get a test patch with Communist THP and other ideas. Where thp is split between the party. Sounded fun, but would probably be a nightmare to work out.

One of the Devs was looking to overhaul it, not sure if that’s still being actively worked on though. Perhaps it is and that’s why they haven’t patched Cleave THP yet?

I still think Bio has a winning idea here. It would force shades to stop rushing as they wouldn’t be able to burst heal half their hp in thp when they kill a CW. I see it being a problem on classes like BW though who really get the most out of THP with stagger. They don’t really want to be in melee combat for ages…

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Cheers for the info. Yeah Bio’s idea is pretty neat, and would definitely love to get a talent row back for more interesting choices.

It’s always nice to see good discussion and well thought out ideas about issues in the game, but in this case (and others), there’s a significant problem in proposing changes. We don’t know what kind of asset FS wants THP to be, or if there even is a clear view on that.

The way it’s supposed to be used changes a lot about what should be done with THP. The current form doesn’t really inform us about the intent either, as it seems to be quite wild (in my opinion, anyway). The expected ease of acquirement, sustainability and effectiveness all change upon changing what is wanted from it. If it’s meant to be a momentary shield, it needs to be both acquired and lost quickly. If it’s meant to be a medium-term counter to attrition, its decay needs to be relatively slow, but so can be receiving it, requiring us to work for it. And how much shield it’s supposed to provide can also change upon intent.

Pretty much only thing that’s been (and is) consistent about the whole thing that it’s supposed to be a) temporary (judging by how it does decay and by the term used), and b) actively acquired. The former point doesn’t really work that well, as many Careers can sustain themselves completely off THP. The initial proposition in this thread works somewhat against the latter point, but could well be augmented through other methods (as I mentioned in my previous post).

I decided to put this out as other suggestions appeared here, and their end results could vary quite wildly. Design of these kinds of things need to start from what is wanted as the end result, and without that info we cannot make really good suggestions. Ideas can be tossed out, but if they don’t match with the intent of the mechanic they’re practically useless - and as we don’t know the intent here, we can’t make informed suggestions.

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Halloween - Geheimnisnacht

The proposed idea would not work out as it has major flaws and also would not balance out. In its current suggested form it would be far to overpowered. And due to the simplicity of the design I don’t think it is possible to bring into a spot which would be okay. Well, to the mjaor flaw points:

  1. The suggested THP generation system does not scale with difficulty - in comparison to the current in-game systems which all scale with difficulty. THP on kill scales hereby the strongest due to more and more elite enemies, same can be said about stagger and cleave due to the increase in horde size which makes generating THP on higher difficulties easier countering the increased threat (how well the system does scale with difficulty is not discussion point here, point is that it does). With the suggested system this is not the case which would lead to overly powerful THP generation on lower difficulties in comparison to potential threat further increasing the gaps between difficulties and hindering transition.

  2. As far as I understood (and I seem to remember reading a FS post about this) the THP generation is there to cover the player in crunch situations, meaning when multiple enemies are approaching (like a horde or a patrol) and afterwards decline fast again. The suggested System however works more as an all-time shield as you just need to stay “in combat” which can be easily done by hitting ambient enemies once. This would potentially lead to a rush of players to single ambient enemies in order to keep the shield up, disrupting the run. The all-time shield Problem would double down if generation and decay are unlinked which means that decay would only take place as long as there is no active generation period. If like this you would just need to hit an enemy all two second and could avoid decay completely.

  3. Which leads to the third problem. The suggested system is easily farmable (current system partially too) and makes situations which are currently high threat to low threat namely the fighting of bosses and maybe Chaos Warriors too. At the moment if you take to much time and have bad positioning bosses like trolls or Stormfiends etc. can wear the player down by continous chip damage because of corrosion damage or damage through blocks etc. With the suggested system you would effectively heal over the fight if you just stay slightly engaged with the boss. You would actually outheal a troll! Similar with CWs. A single CW can be used to heal the THP of four People without posing an actual threat.

The current system works better than the suggested system and does not lead to overpowered generation like the pre-2.0 Version has. If they have to do anything they should abolish THP completely. No THP for anyone.

[Sound of deflating sarcasm]

I would bet that what we got as kinda last minute change in 2.0, without any testing basically, wasn’t result of some grandiose plan, but basically just cutting down temp HP gain and decay dramatically. Not realizing that the game got harder already, due to other changes.

And since then they’re in the stubborn mode, where they don’t want to roll it back and they can’t take one afternoon to at least tweak it.

So there is probably no complex answer to “What is your vision in terms of temp hp generation and maintenance ?” aside from “Hmm, we thought it’s bit too much”

I don’t think that’s good idea, but that was my first thought when reading about this. Well if you want to make it simple like this… then just remove it completely.

But then melee class doing most of the slaying action in rat bloodbath can’t make any mistakes, which would favor ranged classes much more heavily. Currently with non screwed classes, benefit of going melee is also that I can make a mistake, I can take some flame here, some gas there and still keep killing. While with no temp hp at all, it would just suck.

It would create another sea of problems.

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The numbers in the suggestion are malleable, and all those issues you’ve mentioned can be solved with number tweaks, either in decay speed or amount generated from damaging enemies in melee. They could even change the THP generation based on difficulty setting. I strongly believe, after playtesting it, mind, that the suggestion will solve most of the issues with the current system. First and foremost the extremely limited weapon choices.

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