A casual player's feedback after 200h+

Hello dev team :waving_hand:

I’m a PC (Steam) player, and after a little over 200h of mostly non-Havoc gameplay, playing on and off since the game’s launch, I wanted to share my feedback on the game.

I’ll mostly give you my suggestions/wishlist of features I think the game really needs. Time and time again, I have seen frustrating situations and games lost to these issues or the lack of the things I will mention.

But before that, I wanted to give you my unconditional thanks. To the whole team. Darktide is a fantastic game. You should all be very proud of what you achieved here. While I haven’t purchased any of the class DLCs yet, I have spent more aquilas than I would like to admit on the cosmetic shop. And I did so without remorse.

That said, I have been moved to write this post after playing for so long. Some of the things I will list below have been there since day 1, some haven’t, and some a mix of the two, were the issue became apparent after more recent changes or as time went on.

So without further ado, here is the list of things that I would like to see changed in the game:

Lack of crucial QoL features

This is the biggest one for me. I am a PC player, and I’m blessed with the great modding community for this game. But it’s been so long since I started playing with mods, that whenever an update forces me to disable them for a little while, I am met with the harsh reality of what it is to play this game on Damnation or above without a single mod.

Barrels and Pox Bursters demolishing people, sending them flying out of a railing because they didn’t have the mod that shows the “danger zone“ area of the incoming explosions. Let’s be real, it is impossible to react to any of those two in the middle of a fight against a giant horde, many times with ogryn enemies straight up blocking any line of sight to the threats. And the sound cues are often not enough to pinpoint their exact position in time.

The non-customizable, non-numeric HUD is another one. It’s nice for beginners not be overwhelmed by information, but anyone playing any high-end content needs that data. Toughness, health, ammo, ability cooldowns, for yours and your teammates’, etc. The default UI can’t even handle things like having more than 2 bosses/rituals on display (the latter being quite a deadly situation), or having more than X amount of buffs on yourself, and debuffs on enemies aren’t even visible either.

Then there are more “minor” ones, such as end-of-match results/statistics. I get that you don’t want people fighting over highscores, but your game needs statistics like that to be available. Otherwise, players may not realise things like “dang, that other level 30 veteran is doing twice my damage with the same build, maybe I’m doing something wrong“. There’s no possible improvement without feedback.

If I could only pick one of those, I think I would pick the “danger zone” area display mod for barrels, Bursters, and maybe Daemon Hosts too. It is so incredibly punishing and frustrating to play without that one. The most recent event, Rumbling Giants, really exposed this one for me. I see so many console players just eat the Pox Burster waves since the poor saps can’t see where they come from.

I understand wanting to keep things simple, clean, and cinematic. That’s good for the first Xh of gameplay. Maybe you could implement those QoL features, disable them by default, and ask new players if they want them enabled after the Battle for Tertium campaign? I don’t know, something along those lines.

Enemy design/balance heavily conditioning builds

I’m not the first, nor will I be the last, to mention this one, but Crushers are too much of a gear check in this game.

Look, I personally like them as an enemy. They are these great, huge, armor-clad brutes that can down you in a single swing of their giant maces. But the combination of their carapace armor + an obscene amount of health invalidates so many weapon choices and, by consequence, builds in this game, it’s just frustrating.

Once again, the recent event of Rumbling Giants just exposed this problem even to the newer players, since you can get waves of 3+ Crushers even on Malice (I checked, believe me). And it is only thanks to the grenade modifier for these missions and Krak grenades that new players can deal with them.

These past few days, I have seen so many new players struggle with even a single Crusher when they are out of grenades, and their ranged option can’t demolish them. Why is that? Because ~90% of the melee options struggle against them. And, the great majority of those in that 90% can’t even realistically deal with a Crusher in a timely manner at all. And/or it requires a specific weapon mark and blessing combination to even have a slim chance against them.

I like a challenge, and I like many of the mission modifiers. But Crushers make me (and probably most everyone else by extension) straight up not want to mess with certain weapons. Or at least, to bump the difficulty down a peg or two just to play with that fun, inefficient build I cobbled together.

I’m not saying you should be able to clear Havoc 40 with a Shredder Autopistol and a Heavy Sword without being a 0.1% player, but please, consider doing a thing or two about this issue. I want weapon and build variety, even in the higher game modes.

Bugs, (possibly) netcode issues, and other oddities

I want to preface this section by saying that, for the most part, Darktide offers a pretty polished experience as a player. The game is very far from being a mess or anything. But it still presents some very annoying and disruptive bugs and gameplay issues. Some have gone unaddressed for a good while.

I have experienced fits of crashes and disconnections on my rig. Those have been, thankfully, momentary. But still required spending time troubleshooting the causes.

Then there are some line-of-sight/collission issue with some enemies. Hounds, Trappers, and Pox Bombers are sometimes clipping through corners, essentially attacking you through solid cover. There’s nothing more frustrating than losing to a situation that’s out of your hands like that.

And speaking of that trio, some modders have created visualizations that show that, when a player has a bit of ping (just about 100-150ms iirc), there is a massive visual desynchronization between the enemy or attack models (Hounds, Bursters, Trapper nets) and the collisions/networked position. Leaving players not understanding why their well-timed dodge, parry, or push didn’t work, and now they are dead, downed, or missing a bunch of health.

Finally, this is a thing I’ve noticed started happening somewhat recently (No Man’s Land patch, perhaps?), but the “game director“ feels out of whack often. The spawns are very irregular. I’ve gotten Damnation games that feel like Heresy, Heresy games with crazy spawns that feel like Auric at times. Random waves of stuff that didn’t use to be a thing. It’s become harder to gauge the difficulty of a mission and what to expect in the next section of a map.

None of the issues mentioned above is a complete deal-breaker, but they create a lot of friction in the player experience. And when those happen in higher-stakes gameplay, like high Havoc missions or players trying to do a difficult challenge for a Penance, then they become beyond frustrating.

And that’s all from me. I know these arguments are far from original, and I might be just echoing other people’s opinions, but I have experienced, and I agree with every single last point I stated here. I would be overjoyed if I saw any of the issues I mentioned addressed, as Darktide is still one of my favourite games, and I think I could easily sink another 200 more hours into it.

Have a nice day, and for Atoma!

6 Likes

I couldn’t disagree more with this I’m afraid. Learning the danger zone is part of the game. I would never want UI clutter to point out the zones at all. I don’t want an Ironman simulator.

What is this “grenade modifier" you’re mentioning? Edit: nm, sorry I realise you mean the event modifier. I thought you meant some sort of grenade mod you e installed.

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It’s not crushers problem it’s that the rest of the enemies can’t put out any threat for players. Aside from the trapper.

On higher difficulties the game can’t wipe a team without trappers and armored clown cars. You fill obligated to bring anti armor, cause it’s the only treat and in many cases weapons that efficicent against armor are also efficient vs other enemy types cause of aoe or high cleave.

And how lower difficulties are now is new player runs through the empty maps, then there is crusher you hit with weapons having no anti armor damage.

Lower difficulties should spawn enough enemies still, but with low hp, low damage, reduced attack speed, etc. paired with lower abilities CD and more supply crates.

Leveling a new class is an insane slog, because nothing is happening on lower difficulties. There is no power fantasy pool for casuls.

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and far too few take the time to do so, yet wonder why they and many others get yeeted off clandestiums starting stairs or hab dreykos second last drop down area.

if any options would get added to the ui menu it should be to turn OFF the unsightly consolification for the legally blind as well as opacity and size adjustments.

the tiniest glimpse of ammo and health is enough to estimate your next move.

by now I got player outliers off as well cause I seldom even care where randoms are off to now again instead of using the momentum forward :man_shrugging:

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I like most of what you write except this part. Though the game definitely has many bugs and QoL issues both with sounds, UI improvements, and networking that could do with some significant improvements, I think learning the barrel/burster radius/positions is just part of the game.

I would also say the same thing for learning how to deal with crushers, which often has to be a team effort if there are several of them. It’s a practiceable skill learning how to right multiple crushers at the same time in melee and feels rewarding once you have mastered their movement and attackpatterns and you can reliably kill them even solo against multiple.

It’s sort of like learning to fight the plague ogryn boss for the first time. Eventually it becomes a bit of a pushover, and it’s attack patterns are so telegraphed and predictable you can some times even sort of ignore it as long as you stay relatively close to it and just keep it in your peripheral vision while you clear horde/specialists because avoiding it’s attacks has become a dance you’ve learned.

I do however agree that frequently the sound cues are insufficient. The sound and visuals of a lighted barrel in particular could use some improvement. And the most infamous of them all is of course the silent poxburster.

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While consolification is a thing I wouldn’t say that this is part of it, it’s more of a crpg/mmo kind of thing to have glowing dangerzone circles.

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All, I can say is don’t play Vermintide 2. Crushers are this game’s Chaos Warriors and a Chaos Patrol can easily have 4-6 Chaos Warriors in them and that’s just normal day-to-day gameplay in that game and not an event Modifier. You’ll often find 2-3 standing around idle too on higher difficulties. Learning how to handle them with your kit is part of playing, same with learning the danger zones.

I was rather referring to the intrusive size and placement (and amount) of ui items, which seem to be designed with a good distance to a large TV in mind.

usually I’m max a forearms length away from my 27inch oled (and seen quake 3 pros 20 cm from their 24 inch with hunchback :face_with_tongue: ) that I got a very good overview on tiny details.

so even custom ui gets to its limits in how small I want them icons to finally be and what else I’d wanna cut from the interface altogether.

OP wanting to add to the visual clutter rather than cleansing it, i wanted to advocate for the later so IF the devs for some miracle took notice on player feedback, it’s not just all “gamey"info I want in my game.

ideally I forget it’s a game altogether and the frame of my monitor blurrs with my perception of reality :wink:

then again seeing whatever epileptic rainbow diarrhea spat out marathons interface, we could have it way worse.

surprisingly they haven’t added a mortal kombat “toasty” like popup that screams every 5 seconds “ITS A GAME”

so much for immersion :man_facepalming:

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I love Marathon (the original trilogy not that new putrid trash puppeteering the og’s corpse) my username should give that away but I have only ever played the Aleph One port which has a minimized hud. Nothing beats System Shock though when it comes to f*cked up hud.

God it’s horrible! Great game though.

And it’s the og “immersive” sim lmao.

I’m with you on that

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the neon robot convulsion is a sequel to actual good games ?

:scream:

Dios mio and ay caramba, I just saw it as part of the “concord timeline” that pops up in my youtube algorithm.

I learn more every day :saluting_face:

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He is spot on in that it narrows down builds though. In VT2 you could run a shotgun and a sword no problem, it was even pretty great. It still let you kill chaos warriors reasonably and the game didn’t spawn 250 of them. Do this in Darktide and you’ll be swinging blue hits at crushers all game long and you will literally never ever feel “wow I’m glad I brought a shotgun and a sword” and just bring the dueling sword next mission like everyone else.

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I really wish it wasn’t I am genuinely offended that Bungie is choosing to disrespect their own work like that.

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That’s not entirely the Crusher’s fault, that’s the armor type system’s fault.

In VT2 it was the same that some weapons were better at armor than others, so if you’re bringing a melee bad at armor, bring a ranged good at armor. I assume the concept is the same in Darktide, as I haven’t played since December 2023, but if you want to bring a shotgun, then bring a dueling sword. If you want to bring a sword, bring a ranged weapon that’s good against armor? It’s not exactly a novel concept

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It is the armor type system’s fault, as well as the spawn frequency, because right now the game simply spawns so many crushers to kill that you’ll need one highly efficient crusher killing weapon or it’ll feel bad.

It’s not fundamentally different from VT2, you’re right, but the tuning is different and way more punishing if you neglect it. On top of that it’s badly balanced in terms of ranged/melee choices: If you bring a heavy sword on Zealot, what actual carapace armor killing choices do you have on your ranged? There’s the bolter with the brittleness blessing. I think there’s nothing else. Similar issue on Ogryn (he has exactly one blessing on a ranged wep that enables him to kill carapace well should he choose to not cover it with his melee), whereas other classes can alleviate it a little bit better via various tools, but the fundamental problem exists there too.

If the game was balanced more towards the concept of VT2, which was working, it would need to:

  1. spawn less beefy armor
  2. reduce the effectivity of the dueling sword and similar so it can’t singlehandedly trivialize this new, lower amount of armored units
  3. bring up the baseline effectivity of non-armor killing weapons slightly so they can still deal with armor, just notably worse (just like how a dueling sword can still kill hordes but is by far not one at the best at it)
  4. optionally add new ranged weapons or change old ranged weapons to actually provide complimentary tools for killing armor for various different melee weapons
  5. To compensate because this makes the game a little easier, try to introduce actual mechanics that force you to engage a crusher, such as giving them more stagger resistance and making them a bit faster, forcing you to actually fight this threat and not just turn it into a sandbag to beat up. Many options here and it would require a lot of iteration and rebalancing I’m sure, but it’s fundamentally possible (it was in VT2)

If you did all this, you would create a meta where you’re still rewarded for bringing anti-crusher options against crushers, but you don’t feel forced to, just like VT2 was with chaos warriors.

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I have played plenty of Vermintide 2, actually. I don’t have any problems with Chaos Warriors in that game. And I know how to fight Crushers. It’s just I wish I didn’t need to bring the 3-5 melee weapons that do okay against them so I can be a reliable member of my team.

So again, the issue isn’t Crusher’s themselves, it’s the general game balance around weapons, availability, and armor types, which is a whole different topic lol.

And, in typical FS fashion, it’s a problem they’ve solved twice and never learned from.

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What would “the crushers themselves” mean if not their impact on gameplay? In any case that impact matters and changing surrounding factors (their frequeny, how weps kill them) would improve things

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Of all the mods you could have picked as essential to integrate into the game this is one of the more insane choices you could have made.

Arcadey BS visual effects are not a requirement and many of us would genuinely riot if something like this was made base game.

This is like a vomiting in my mouth level bad call.

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I guess you missed the part were I mention that it should be disabled by default and have the option to turn it on.

It would mean that the Crushers, specifically, were an outlier. Such as the scaling of their health/armor/damage was such an issue that you were forced to build specifically to counter them. From what you’re telling me it’s less “Crushers are an outlier” and more “these other systems combine in such a way that Crusher’s are annoying”

To put it another way.

If you had a Pokemon with 1,000 in every stat, and it could learn every move in the game and could have 8 moves instead of 4. It would be the problem. This is not what a Crusher is.

If you had a Pokemon that was reasonably strong, but its major weaknesses were to types with no good damaging moves and/or had no good Pokemon within those types. The reasonably Strong Pokemon would be a significant threat by proxy of other systems failing. Which is what’s happening with Crushers