Can this become the beginning of a really good comprehensive guide to Veteran? Can it be called:
The Imperial Infantryman’s Uplifting Primer
Or
The Imperial Infantryman’s Uplifting Primer
of Tertium
?
Would add to the collections of how there is Ogrynomicon and Psyker Atheneum
Still looking for a noteworthy guide on Zealots with a lore friendly title. One that can give all the compiled best of (and fair perspectives of) builds, weapons etc. Maybe call it the Zealots Scriptures, or Zealots Codex, or Preachers Testament?
Hol’ up, whats with TDR being rated at ‘excellent’? I’m genuinely curious, since calculating this whole thing by value is the whole schtick.
Why do you rate TDR so high? Is it even possible to get the Vets toughness to a point where you actually gained value from thse talents?
Mostwise I think I agree on the rest of them, but yeah, TDR surpirsed me.
Oh I just wanna say! While I agree that Weapon Specialist has value, and that value is high simply because of the free crit and the increased attack speed. I actually think that as a talent, in a veteran class, its boring, badly designed rubbish that I’d happily trade out for something more interesting.
Yeah don’t think not being interesting is WS’ issue. More just being awkward to interact with and having niche to outright dubious sub nodes.
It’s got a good little theme with agile on the same side of the tree and fits with OfB also on right side for very flexible toughness sustain. I’ve always been a fan of builds that encourage a lot of weapon swaps (Bounty Hunter is one of my VT2 mains, swapping between BoP and rapier continuously is a joy), core concept is good it’s just been in need of some polish since it released.
I wasn’t saying ANY of the capstones are interesting, buddy. I just said, even though Weapon Specialist is “good”, I think its a boring talent. In this day and age, surely we can make 40k class talents with a bit more spice, ay?
Again, I think ALL of the capstone talents are boring and badly designed, even if they make damage ‘go big’.
i tend to look at WS as if it was a single node - rarely ever worth putting points in the sub-node.
So for conversation sake, if it was a just a “node” (and not a keystone) that added 100% ranged crit chance for 5s after 3+ melee kills AND also +15% melee attack speed for 10s after a ranged kill, I think we’d all say “yeah, that’s a pretty good node.”
Practically speaking, on damnation+ difficulty you are constantly bouncing between melee and ranged during any substantial engagement and the uptime on WS is pretty good. This is also one of the main ways vet has for boosting crit chance outside of Deadshot, which has it’s own caveats.
No one talks enough about agile engagement either, which adds +25% damage for 5s after a melee or ranged kill when swapping weapons. Which is strong for similar reasons.
I regret to inform you that the crit chance is only on the first shot after activation. It’s the fire rate that lasts 5 seconds (a bit short to my mind for the size of the bonus). I think IJ is still just an overall better boost for any weapon that really benefits from the fire rate, but the guaranteed crit at least has some nice uses for slower firing weapons.
A few people around here do, yeah no question it’s great. Kinda highlights an issue with WS IMO by working flawlessly with hellbore with no swap requirement. Stacking agile engagement with WS on hellbore without needing to swap is my Vet wet dream.
MF should be focused on precision weapons that are not automatic. Sadly, it is better to use an automatic gun…
WS should be great for automatic guns, but sadly, again, this is the contrary. After completing the worst veteran penance, I have well understood that a revolver is really the best with WS. However, then, what is the interest of this? I have surgical, that take a longer time to assure a critic but still, it is sufficient and even better for my use.
I am glad some of you like these keystones. A lot don’t. I rarely find players that don’t pick keystones, but when I see one most of the time it is a veteran. (surprisingly, I have succeeded to find something fun to play with psyker… and that doesn’t use keystones… tbh, psykers keystones never impressed me.)
yep, totally see the logic there, and completely agree!
Obviously, since you’re doing this as a guide for people, makes total sense that you rate it highly.
Still curious though, why do you rate Toughness Damage Reduction so highly? I’ve always been under the assumption that regardless of how much you pump the total toughness, and then apply damage reduction on it, there is little to no difference to someone who only increased the total.
Bare in mind, I ask purely out of interest! I’m not saying I feel strongly either way
Man, I just don’t know what to tell you. Its some attack speed and crit. As a capstone. I mean they are all bad in terms of design. Trash little bonuses to our stats.
This is a decade after the Vermintide titles, Fatshark should have evolved the mechanics in this new main title. Capstones should change how we play in fun and meaningful ways, and they just don’t.
Out for blood and movement speed is blue? OfB is one of the best toughness talents in game, and movement speed is a crazy valuable stat, at least good.
TDR talents Excellent while flat toughness talents just neutral? They give more Effective Toughness even the +15 one.
+5% crit excellent? Maybe Neutral would be better.
Stamina delay is just neutral and even weak? That’s an easy excellent node, game feels really bad without at least one of them.
Opening salvo good? It’s a trash node that is only useful in some builds.
Skirmisher is also at most neutral (I’d consider it trash) even with the duration buff.
I also find it strange that Krak which is a super situational blitz is rated higher than Frag which is generally useful.
Exploit Weakness is also a Trash/Trap node. It has 0 use.
Desperado and Trench Fighter Drill could easily be rated excellent. These are some real melee power nodes.
That’s my 2 cents, other stuff is debatable, but seems fine I guess.
So very funny to me that two of the weapons I’d otherwise consider using this with have access to uncanny, a blessing that gives rending instead of brittle, and 6 times more of it.
