eh, still don’t think it needs to be particularly aoe stagger focused bc that’s the maul’s job. Having more stagger on the light makes sense bc it’s already slow af and has zero cleave, but the heavy should be more about damage and cleave than stagger. Mo damage, mo betta
Still on board with that proposal but I’m more focused on what make’s the hammer kinda bleh in my view which is the charged attack. I’m fine with not changing anything about the normal swings, but making them more damage and cleave oriented would be fine with me.
ohhh man the “normal swings” are what’s being used most of the time tho. Like, the majority of the experience with it is just wailing away at hordes and trying to bonk things, and most of that is performing at an unsatisfactory level. The special attack is behaving satisfactorily in terms of its effectiveness, but its usefulness is lacking due to design factors - kinda opposing issues (regular attacks lacking effectiveness but generally behaving ok, vs good effectiveness but horrible behavior on special attacks).
Personally I don’t think it’s that bad. I find the high stagger to be valuable to the slow swing speed. And its damage is pretty OK. Though frankly with the lack of cleave and it being a two hander you’d really expect higher uncharged first target. Its the same as the axe, which is kinda silly. But I don’t find this kind of gameplay the least bit unpleasant.
Thing is, I’m comparing it to other weapons with similar attributes, like axes, of which it behaves a lot like in the light attacks, and a little with the heavies depending on blessings. They both have high damage, low cleave (for lights, and for heavies, the hammer cleave is mostly in stagger and not in damage), and high stagger (situationally for axes, mostly on the heavies). But, the axes tend to outperform the hammer because they have higher attack speed and lower stagger, and get in more damage as a consequence of that. People get around the lack of axe cleave with a single blessing, and their damage is better, so they generally use axes instead. They’re just generally more effective and less of a pain in the ass moment-to-moment. The hammer has its moments, but it also has its bad moments, of which axes tend not to have. Axes, for some reason, also have lower block cost, which is baffling.
I think this is where most people who have issues with hammer performance would come to chime in, mostly after their experience with the other weapons, and seeing how much better an axe can perform, in general. You might be having a decent experience with it, having some proper blessings on it, but that specific-use case isn’t necessarily likely to be the norm experience, considering how many people share the sentiment that the hammer needs to be improved.
Just make it work like the Eviserator’s rev attack. The rev+light will hit and latch on whatever the weapon touches first, the rev+heavy will swing through and knock down chaff and only latch on specials/elites.
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Thats precisely what i was proposing actually.
Oh, im in agreement with you on this point. The axe is, objectively, an S-tier weapon while i consider the hammer more C tier. It has niche value and IS viable. But it struggles in a number of circumstances. I can totally see wanting to buff its normal attack damage. But my main issue with the weapon has to do with the thunder hammer not thunderhammering effectively. Its hard to land key shots in mixed circimstances and that holds it back from doing the one job you might take it for.
I think that’s the main issue with like 99% of people that have used it too
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Well to be completely honest I have ended up in shoes like that before which is why I feel you are forced into using the Flamer if you use TH, I flamer those situations until I’ve cleared out the Chaff, and then I’ll usually have the Bulworks, Crushers, and Maulers running around.
But I charge and hit more than that, then dodge again so as not to get hit.
That said, I do actually agree with the changes that need to happen with it. I wouldn’t have to always load out with the Flamer if the Charged Heavy could cleave like a small fry target prior to Discharging into the Elite you intended to hit.
Secondly… that recoil animation lock is far too long. Power Sword does not have one at all… so why does this have one. These are powered weapons the impact is directed into the target, not back at the user like a chain weapon would be.
I can get around all these quirks anyway and use those Charged heavies like a pro despite all that and make this baby sing…
BUT… does Fat Shark understand that is because of 3 years worth of Vermintide PLUS this game?
Do they understand how FEW people will ever even gain the skill to use this even at a basic level?
Well then… they need to make some serious adjustments if they want other normal people even being able to use it.
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Thats why unless they fix the cleave issue the powered heavy attack should be an overhead… although I guess the idea of the Evis change would be good as well.
I suppose that is one way to fix it,
The Charged attack using Heavy Attack Damage on all types of swings regardless of whether it really is a heavy or light attack.
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I feel better when I see that lot of you think TH needs something to be done.
When I tested this weapon, my main concern was the energized attack and the fact it hurts the first enemy encountered.
It should works like the crusher and impact all the enemies you hit…
That’s my only concern about this weapon.
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The weapon definitely needs to be able to cleave through flak armored enemies more reliably, even if only to stagger if not outright damage things on other side. I’d be happy if it was only with the special activation it was capable of doing this… granted the stun is removed.
Trashhammer definitely needs something done and it’s entirely acceptable to make it overpowered. (because crutchsword exists)
I don’t care if you can stack damage in a meme build to 2-3shot a daemonhost, it’s just not relevant in normal gameplay and generally the common monsters are not significant threats(one of them basically only do corruption damage, one of them can be animation locked like ratogre most of time, both are easy to dodge).
Hammer also sucks against traitor captains, the damage is abysmal against the shield(ironically, crusher does way better here) and damage against flak isn’t anything to write home about(it can get lower than the very spammable and relatively safe, due to being able to saw while sliding, eviscerator).
Currently the best way to make it work is to just use an autopistol(not flamer, those are for bad players who rely on teammate for ranged threats) and use that as primary weapon - it melts most things with generous amount of ammo, what it doesn’t melt will usually be heavily staggered, and make you run super fast. Hammer is only needed when out of ammo or when there are only elites left(autopistol deal with horde decently too).
It needs a lot of love honestly, the heavy swings only damaging 3 enemies and with low damage on the secondaries is ass, the no cleave on the push attack is ass, the damage versus flak/carapace is ass, the insane animation lock on the special is ass. Its a weapon that does a lot of things, and all of them poorly. Either keep the bad cleave profile and buff the light attacks/special so it can deal with single target more effectively, or make the special function like the power sword so it can be a big cleaving weapon, or just buff everything
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So it looks like we’re getting a Thunderhammer oriented towards cleave now.
Well, that’s in and of itself good news I suppose.
I just hope they don’t give up on fixing the crusis version.
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I guarentee there will be downward scaling damage for each target hit or something lame. The pessimism flows through me brothers.
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either of your two fixes would be super solid